Why the Harem Hate?

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  • I like the novel more when there is harem involved. Like MGA, ATG etc. 
    deal with it 
  • Aliuss said:
    I like the novel more when there is harem involved. Like MGA, ATG etc. 
    deal with it 
    there's nothing to deal with, it's your opinion, who am i to tell you what to think? 
    also i wonder, what do you like more about the novel? for example i personally don't like harem, because i feel like it interferes with the flow of the story, but that's my opinion, but why do you like harem? because it's sexy to have many girls? the romance? to see how mc deals with so many girls? there could be many reasons, and i would like you to share with me so maybe i can see a different point of view...
  • I like the concept of having more than one wife. I know it's impossible in my community and i wont try to achive this so i'm just reading stuff like that. 
    I like when MC flirt with womens. But i dont like too much romance so xianxia is great for me. Not too much love story, more action, less crap talking. 
    Ppl are compaling about how they describe every good looking woman. I dont see it weird, author wont give MC ugly one... so there must be heavens beauty for MC. 
    The story with 100% story about cultivation and fighting is quite boring for me, it's too plain. There must be a gateway for some funserwise (but of course not too much) . 
    I'm getting angry every time I see MC thats getting a lot of attention from girls and he is doing nothing about this (like every jap novel). I'm a guy so it's so weird for me. 
    Right now I'm reading Emperors Domination. I love the concept of super old MC, but there is too much talking about cultivation techniques and stuff related with them. The few lines of text when he tease the genius girls gives so much fresh air for the story and thanks to that I'm not getting bored with it. I'm only at chapter 100 but I hope he will meet some other girls to entertain me more.
    Not sure what to say more.  

  • I think for Western readers (the ones that respond positively to harems) voyeurism is a big part of accepting and embracing harem plot-lines, no matter how bad they are. This could also be applied to other things like the violence in CN's. 
  • edited September 2016
    I can't honestly say I object to harems, but it feels somewhat out of place or maybe just static in some of these xianxia worlds.  Especially how the vast majority of the men in these worlds seem to be head over heels in lust with whoever is the hottest girl they've ever heard of.  Only if the girl is a virgin, that is.  They all seem to have this weird "first post" mentality as if they wanted conquests instead of relationships.  The girl's first time seems to be the only relationship checkpoint.  There seems to be only two types of men/women interactions; either the guy is or will be the girl's or girls' first and forever, or the girl has been "ruined" by a callous playboy or slavering gang/army and serves as a plot device for the main character to beat up the bad guy and are afterwards never mentioned or encountered by the main character.  
    Women with multiple partners sequentially through time only seem to exist namelessly in brothels as a passing mention.  Girls with multiple guys for minions only have them as admirers still competing for her first time, and not a reverse harem.  On the other hand, women who develop a relationship with someone who isn't their first sexual experience don't seem to exist, widowers never find love again, and of course, there's no sexually liberated women with their own strings of conquest.  Even accounting for cultural differences regarding the importance and prevalence of dating, having a harem subplot in these worlds just seems, I don't know, empty?
  • edited September 2016
    I think that one of the problem with the harem is that it is often sign of poor story writing and authors fantasies. I think a perfect bad example is Re:Monster (it's not the only problem but one of the three biggest ones)
    Day 27 : 5 human girls come to the cave as sex slave after all their friends were killed by goblins. They are saved from this fate by the hero (Rou, who is a "goblin") but still kept "prisonners".
    2 weeks later : "Oh Rou, I love you"
    ... WTF, I know that Stockholm syndrome is a thing, but don't tell me that after not even 2 weeks, the girls who viewed the goblins as nothing other than monsters will all fall in love with one of them. I am okay that they change their point of view and cease viewing them as cruel monsters, but to fall in love with them, it's directly a step to the moon.

    And after that, it continues: a female military chief? Beat her, enslave her, beat her in duel and she will fall in love.

    Plus an other problem with a lot of harem: it's either "main one, and the rest" (Re: Monster as an example: you have one girl that the hero really loves and is really developped, and you have the rest: except having sex/fanservice they have nearly no utility)

    Or "choose your wife" (example: Negima (not a novel but the perfect example). You have a lot of potential wifes and you know that the hero will only choose one of them. Often, the choice is made by the readers (indirectly, through popularity, ...). It generally leads to Waifu fan. Sometimes, the choice isn't even revealed. The problem with these is that it's only made so every type of Waifu is there and the hero isn't really in love, he just likes them and must make a choice)(TDG was a bit like that for a while. We had two girls that the hero liked and was hesitant to which one to choose. While it is said that he chose both, we don't really see the consequence, the author just delays it. Utility for the story? None. Number of lines about it? A lot)

    Though, sometimes, Harem stories are well made. But only sometimes.

  • edited September 2016
    This was covered by a few people but I'll put my own spin to it.

    Its the quality of most harem stories that's the problem. Even accounting for cultural differences when these relationships reach certain stages, there are certain interactions that should come into play.
    For example, very few of the women seem to find any fault in the MC, this is especially true in the Chinese Xianxia (not all Chinese novels), partly because of culture and partly just the authors and Xianxia setting. You sometimes have novels who try to differentiate the women by giving each of them standout personalities but then trip up by basically them all love everything about the MC. An easy example of something different is the recently started Spirit Realm, the romance is not totally focused on the MC making them swoon by saving them or showing off. Sometimes their can be actual banter slipped into the relationship showing what the woman likes and dislikes and even showing her having an opinion on it (even if not in public).

    Another thing is as mentioned before, friction between the women and/or reluctance to join the harem for the more powerful women, ATG touched on the reluctance part one fairly nicely but failed on the above point for the most part (other than the Burning clan incident which was just bad writing in general imo so it sort of squashed that)
    This can also be extended to the weaker of the women in terms of them actually acknowledging their lack of a good position in the harem, I know concubines and such were widely accepted in the old Chinese relationships but the concubines back then were conscious of their position, while in these novels all the women seem to feel like they're number one somehow, or at least they give off that impression. Heck look at ATG i mentioned, Yun che literally told one woman that he really doesn't love her and only really wants to possess her as she's beautiful and she seems to totally ignore that, shrugging it off like its some dust on her shoulder, not even a flinch. I mean its okay if she's so in love that she could accept it but at least show some hurt, or hesitation.

    Now i get a lot of time usually won't be spent on such things but a change of expression a line here or there would go a long way to building more realistic characters (and for the 'realistic' exaggerators, i mean realistic within the setting of the story in proportion to RL)

    My last two points:
    First, The fact that the women fall so easily for the MC and yet there are many other strong and impressive people floating about in the Xianxia worlds. This is especially aimed towards those women who fall in love from seeing the MC's strength, you would think all the time before the MC came along they would have ample time to fall in love, or at least be interested in someone else and therefore have to make a choice.

    This wraps into my second point. The competition, it is non-existent for the women of the harem 99 times out of a 100. The men aiming for the women are almost always super conniving evil rapists that everyone, and especially the women (given the circumstances) can, and will, hate. It cheapens the choices the women make as it always feels like, "was there really a choice there?". So its basically double in MC's favor without him even doing anything as the other males in the story push the women towards him and obviously because their meeting was plot enduced, the MC usually doesn't even have to try to be in the right place at the right time. Therefore the MC can be callous with the relationship while spouting sweet words and everything will still work out because he will never have to really worry about the harem members.
    An example of maybe doing some caring would be what happens in HJC or ISSTH, where the MC actually puts some thought into actively keeping those he loves safe and not just pursuing power while coincidentally being there just in time every time.

    Whew that turned out longer than i planned. Oh well those are my main reasons there.

    TLDR: Without a good author and also good planning separately on the romance front, harem stories are too easily and therefore frequently cheapened. Therefore you end up with what seems like a half assed attempt at romance that unfortunately tends to stick out like a sore thumb. Way more than the super luck the MC has, unless its like WDQK, MW and a few others where it is just a BITTTT too obvious.

    Btw a fairly well done harem story for me would be Savage Divinity from fictiongrill.com. Its not perfect but its one of those few stories where although it isn't written in stone yet I would actually encourage the MC to go for it. As its written to not seem like harem for harem's sake but rather harem because there are actually multiple women the MC loves who love him back and they all have their problems with him and also what they love about him that allows them to look past that.
  • Because I'd rather be reading about cultivation, and adventure, and not crappy writing, about someone's crappy love nest.

    I don't have any moral problems with it in fictional stories, it's just boring.
    This.

    I don't like some parts of ATG (like when he is opening all 5x acc.points from the icy beauties that i dont remember the name. Take too many advantages over several chapters (i guess it took 3~4 to end it, just with bs of pervert. Go back to the damn story!))
  • If a harem doesn't interfear with the story (like in the demon heart tribulation world on DE, he got himself a harem of 2, and doesn't impact the story. Or the multiple rape abuse on WMW). The Harem part on ATG looks like filler
  • edited October 2016
    Why do some readers hate harem and decides to drop a novel when they discover that it's a harem? I prefer harem ending so that all heroines can be happy and not forgotten, unlike the novel ISSTH.

    So is your reason being just a simple polygamous, jealousy, religious, NGSB, or got a trauma in real life related to harem?

    Polyamory is the word that many people are using nowadays for this. If marriage between gays/lesbians has been allowed mostly everywhere, you'll probably see "polyamory" marriages as well very soon. (which can be harem/reverse-harem/mixed) (there was a shoujo dumb manga for this as well)

    I usually search for the deepness of a novel. Meeting your "fated" woman (soulmate) is always beautiful and very deep than banging random occasional/retarded girls.
    Japanese animes taught us that losers MC could have a lot of retarded girls for no reasons. We just got tired of it.

    In a romance (korean drama-shit apart), the "true love" is always the most deep and hyped.

    Talking about novels "we know", I enjoyed YC's harem in ATG, but it's incomparable to the romance in DL and other novels where we have only one "main girl" for the MC.
  • edited October 2016
    • Harem was so popular in web novels because most readers were losers at the time web novels first appeared, and losers tends to want to have multiple wives. Be aware that authors of web novels needs to be feed, they had no choice but followed the demand. Nowadays harem are hated as there are so much of them in novels, makes MC end up an ignorant pervert, and makes readers tired of watch MC fuxx different girls, who only disturbs you with their incredibly low IQ.  I have read approximately twenty thousand web novels, and believe that harem indicates that the novel is not readable at all. 
    • Just personal opinion, and but there is one novel I hated so much for it is not harem. It's called 将夜(jiang ye), give it a try. 

  • As much as Jiang Ye not being a harem is kinda annoying, I still liked it remaining a OTP because it showed that the main character had integrity. Ning Qe killed many people but he would hardly go against his words other than the times for Sang Sang which is the main point of the story, therefore becoming a harem doesnt make much sense.
  • As much as Jiang Ye not being a harem is kinda annoying, I still liked it remaining a OTP because it showed that the main character had integrity. Ning Qe killed many people but he would hardly go against his words other than the times for Sang Sang which is the main point of the story, therefore becoming a harem doesnt make much sense.
    it doesn't make any sense indeed. But Mo Shanshan is just so adorable
  • YYF_Hals said:
    As much as Jiang Ye not being a harem is kinda annoying, I still liked it remaining a OTP because it showed that the main character had integrity. Ning Qe killed many people but he would hardly go against his words other than the times for Sang Sang which is the main point of the story, therefore becoming a harem doesnt make much sense.
    it doesn't make any sense indeed. But Mo Shanshan is just so adorable
    As much as I like Shanshan, I liked Sang Sang more. Its like the feeling I had when reading Zhu Xian. I liked Baguio but I liked Lu Xueqi more.
  • edited October 2016
    BookWorm said:
    Because harems are not realistically portrayed in the novels at all. No girls ever even question or oppose the mc taking multiple wives. The idea that the wives can immediately become best friends/sisterly (see mga) is fking ridiculous and does not happen in real life at all. Oh and if you think historically, it's accurate think again. In our history, women weren't powerful and were not given rights and such which is why there were harems. In the novels, regardless of genders, the cultivators are powerful and i doubt anyone likes sharing their SO with others.
    Exactly this. I have some shocking news: women in real life don't like being treated as sex tools (!!!!!). like many said before, it's just not realistic. if you have had any relationship in your life, you know that the harems in LNs are completely bs. no, I'm not talking about morals. it's just that I'm not a 12 years old kid anymore and I know the harems (and especially the way they are built in Chinese LNs) are utterly stupid. all the girls are selfless, they don't have any pride, dignity or whatsoever, they just love the MC for stupid reasons (usually, because the MC saves her and humiliate the other guy who likes the girl to show how badass he is). 
    MGA is a perfect example of that: the Su sisters were in a coma for years because they tried to save Chu Feng. right after they wake up, the first thing Chu Feng says is "oh sorry, I have to leave because I'll save my new wife, who I met while you two were in a coma because of me." and what is the reaction of the girls? "oh it is alright! she loves you, so we love her too! let's go save your new wife!!" and most ridiculous of all, Chu Feng says he is happy because they are not being selfish. SERIOUSLY? he was about to leave the girls who had sacrificed themselves for his sake, go look for the third girl he got behind their back, and he thinks they would be selfish if they didn't approve it?

    so, yeah, harem is stupid. if you like the MC doing all the girls he encounters, the sex scenes, etc., that is fine. but you can't say it makes sense or is a nice part of the plot because it is not. not to mention the fact that all the wives of the MC are simply the most beautiful girls. there is no real romance, good interactions or whatsoever. the MC goes to a new place, meets the number 1 beauty of that place, then some lame plot gives the MC the opportunity to save the girl, he kills the villains who wanted to have sex with the girl, and that is it. she now is selfless, retarded sex slave for the rest of her life, and is even happy if decides to take more wives, because... because she loves him! after all, he is badass.

    p.s. ISSTH is not like that, and that's why it's so good.
  • i dont have issue with harem, but i have issue when "xianxia/huanhua" genre novel wastes half of its chapters on jade like bitches with pearl skin color and silk hair....you see my point? i dont read harem novels, dropped all that was defined as harem and not starting any novel defined as harem...
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