I dont like harems in Xianxia novels

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Comments

  • Tasear said:

    Is it possible that they aren't aware of wuxia/xianxia existence? I mean afterall didn't most of us find out by chance?

    I'm pretty sure they are aware, but chose not to be bother with it. Chinese are pragmatists after all. These novels, and i'm _not_ talking about the wuxia/xianxia genre in particular, but i'm talking about the novels which are translated and are popular presently, these novels care for a young male audience. There exist novels which target a female audience and the plot is pretty much similar. The female MC is surrounded by males, and they all try to court her. Other female characters are jealous of her. One such example being "The Journey of Flower" by Fresh Guo Guo (果果).
  • edited December 2015
    hanmeng said:

    Back to topic, do you think the reason that we see many harem idea in the xianxia, because the writer wrote the story for men?

    That there is the idea that the majority of xianxia/wuxia reader are men.

    (...)

    But if its true, how female reader felt about it?

    It's not just a 'men' or 'women' thing. Generalizing like that would reject the existence of men who don't like those kind of stories and women who do.

    Let's have the readers in your blog as an example.

    You wrote a harem wuxia story. People who don't like harems and/or wuxia stories won't bother reading, much less comment on it (unless they're trolls). So the loyal commenters are those that like harems and/or wuxia stories.

    The reason why there are many harems in the xianxia is not because the writer wrote the story for men, but because the writer wrote it for his/her readers, and they want harems (he/she may or may not like harems). The majority of the readers just happened to be of a certain gender belonging to a certain age group with certain preferences. Or maybe the writer likes harems, and he/she shared it to a community where the readers and writers like harems too. Or both.

    So there are roughly four kinds of readers here: those who like harems and xianxia, those who like harems and don't like xianxia (and are reading the stories for the harem), those who don't like harems but like xianxia, and those that don't care (and says, 'it depends'). When type 3 makes a thread about how he/she doesn't like harems in xianxia, types 1, 2 (and occasionally 4) would show their disapproval.

    As for me, I'm more of a Type 3, sometimes Type 4. But then again, there are subgroups of Type 3: those that vocalize their dislike of harems by posting threads like this, those that comment and agree, those that try to join the mob and antagonize their fellow Type 3s, those that don't feel like taking sides/try to calm things down, and those that don't bother joining the argument.
    The meat jelly is watching you.
  • edited December 2015
    I agree with the above statement, so I going to build off of that. Assuming their are women who like Harems then we shouldn't see such divergence. I think we still dealing with fact that women have less access to the internet. I did a quick google search an looks like 50% of women in developing countries are likely to have access compared to men. Though outside the unite states, there is significant increase of inequality in general of women who have access to the internet. Avoiding some factors, we can assume that if they did have access then there would could be 150 to 200 increase in female viewership which would make it about equal. So maybe we were just born to early, so we are seeing this disparity in viewership.


    http://www.marieclaire.com/culture/news/a13630/no-ceilings-report-on-gender-gap/

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/women-in-the-developing-world-are-half-as-likely-to-access-t

    The report finds that in many of these communities, there is a belief
    that men should have priority access to the web. Though not the leading
    cause of the gender disparity in Internet access, these attitudes are
    nonetheless eye-opening. In New Delhi and Manila, for example, more than
    half of men felt they had the right to control what women look at
    online, and almost 2/3 felt that women shouldn’t be allowed to look at
    the Internet in public places. According to report author and Women’s
    Rights Research and Advocacy Coordinator for the World Wide Web
    Foundation Ingrid Brudvig, men tended to believe more strongly than
    women that they should have priority to Internet access.
  • Also to note, in countries with a Patriarchal society/system, the man hold control of the money.
  • Tasear said:

    I agree with the above statement, so I going to build off of that. Assuming their are women who like Harems then we shouldn't see such divergence. I think we still dealing with fact that women have less access to the internet. I did a quick google search an looks like 50% of women in developing countries are likely to have access compared to men. Though outside the unite states, there is significant increase of inequality of women access to the internet. Avoiding some factors, we assume that if they did have access then there would could be 150 to 200 increase in female viewership which would make it about equal. So maybe we were just born to early, so we are seeing this disparity in viewership.


    http://www.marieclaire.com/culture/news/a13630/no-ceilings-report-on-gender-gap/

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/women-in-the-developing-world-are-half-as-likely-to-access-t

    The report finds that in many of these communities, there is a belief
    that men should have priority access to the web. Though not the leading
    cause of the gender disparity in Internet access, these attitudes are
    nonetheless eye-opening. In New Delhi and Manila, for example, more than
    half of men felt they had the right to control what women look at
    online, and almost 2/3 felt that women shouldn’t be allowed to look at
    the Internet in public places. According to report author and Women’s
    Rights Research and Advocacy Coordinator for the World Wide Web
    Foundation Ingrid Brudvig, men tended to believe more strongly than
    women that they should have priority to Internet access.

    This is interesting. I wonder what kind of control they're talking about? I mean, I've never seen women looking at porn sites or something in public internet cafes. Or are they talking about BL-lovers like me? I confess that I read yaoi manga in public, b-but many people don't even know how to read manga, much less understand the black-and-white drawings I'm looking at!!! >///////< lol

    Jokes aside, is it what women look at that they want to control, or maybe it's the access to the internet itself? Why? Is it because they want to hog the computers to themselves?
    The meat jelly is watching you.
  • edited December 2015

    hanmeng said:

    Back to topic, do you think the reason that we see many harem idea in the xianxia, because the writer wrote the story for men?

    That there is the idea that the majority of xianxia/wuxia reader are men.

    (...)

    But if its true, how female reader felt about it?

    It's not just a 'men' or 'women' thing. Generalizing like that would reject the existence of men who don't like those kind of stories and women who do.

    Let's have the readers in your blog as an example.

    You wrote a harem wuxia story. People who don't like harems and/or wuxia stories won't bother reading, much less comment on it (unless they're trolls). So the loyal commenters are those that like harems and/or wuxia stories.

    The reason why there are many harems in the xianxia is not because the writer wrote the story for men, but because the writer wrote it for his/her readers, and they want harems (he/she may or may not like harems). The majority of the readers just happened to be of a certain gender belonging to a certain age group with certain preferences. Or maybe the writer likes harems, and he/she shared it to a community where the readers and writers like harems too. Or both.

    So there are roughly four kinds of readers here: those who like harems and xianxia, those who like harems and don't like xianxia (and are reading the stories for the harem), those who don't like harems but like xianxia, and those that don't care (and says, 'it depends'). When type 3 makes a thread about how he/she doesn't like harems in xianxia, types 1, 2 (and occasionally 4) would show their disapproval.

    As for me, I'm more of a Type 3, sometimes Type 4. But then again, there are subgroups of Type 3: those that vocalize their dislike of harems by posting threads like this, those that comment and agree, those that try to join the mob and antagonize their fellow Type 3s, those that don't feel like taking sides/try to calm things down, and those that don't bother joining the argument.
    In my case when I wrote that wuxia, I want to poke on some of the cliches :
    1. Drug/fruit/herb that made the character godlike powerful.
    2. Harem.

    That's why I purposely made the mc get some kind of drug that help him improved faster, only to found out later that the drug caused terrible side effect and for a certain time he lost almost all his kung fu after he stopped consuming the drug.

    He also have some female characters willing to be his wife, only to find out that they're using him for their own purpose and it led to some tragedy later in the story.
  • I think that big part of male population dreams about having a lot of women or at least being super popular. The same thing goes for women, they want for males to fight for them etc. 
    In xianxia MC are mosty ideal. Readers like to equate themselfs with MC. Thats why i think there is so much harem in xianxia. 
    I started my journey with xianxia only 3-4 months ago, and only novel i read so far without harem is CD. I liked it very much but ISSTH and ATG which has harem is more enjoyable for me. 
  • Aliuss said:

    I think that big part of male population dreams about having a lot of women or at least being super popular. The same thing goes for women, they want for males to fight for them etc. 

    In xianxia MC are mosty ideal. Readers like to equate themselfs with MC. Thats why i think there is so much harem in xianxia. 
    I started my journey with xianxia only 3-4 months ago, and only novel i read so far without harem is CD. I liked it very much but ISSTH and ATG which has harem is more enjoyable for me. 
    issth is not a harem -_-
    Understand basic grammar:
    Your vs You're
    There vs Their vs They're
    Defiantly vs Definitely
    Loose vs Lose
    Than vs Then
    To vs Too
    NO 'Should/Could of'

  • BookWorm said:

    Aliuss said:

    I think that big part of male population dreams about having a lot of women or at least being super popular. The same thing goes for women, they want for males to fight for them etc. 

    In xianxia MC are mosty ideal. Readers like to equate themselfs with MC. Thats why i think there is so much harem in xianxia. 
    I started my journey with xianxia only 3-4 months ago, and only novel i read so far without harem is CD. I liked it very much but ISSTH and ATG which has harem is more enjoyable for me. 
    issth is not a harem -_-
    we will see, for me it's just a matter of time ;)
  • Aliuss said:

    BookWorm said:

    Aliuss said:

    I think that big part of male population dreams about having a lot of women or at least being super popular. The same thing goes for women, they want for males to fight for them etc. 

    In xianxia MC are mosty ideal. Readers like to equate themselfs with MC. Thats why i think there is so much harem in xianxia. 
    I started my journey with xianxia only 3-4 months ago, and only novel i read so far without harem is CD. I liked it very much but ISSTH and ATG which has harem is more enjoyable for me. 
    issth is not a harem -_-
    we will see, for me it's just a matter of time ;)
    Of course there shall be a harem. A harem of furs and feathers for me, obviously.
    Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
  • Aliuss said:

    BookWorm said:

    Aliuss said:

    I think that big part of male population dreams about having a lot of women or at least being super popular. The same thing goes for women, they want for males to fight for them etc. 

    In xianxia MC are mosty ideal. Readers like to equate themselfs with MC. Thats why i think there is so much harem in xianxia. 
    I started my journey with xianxia only 3-4 months ago, and only novel i read so far without harem is CD. I liked it very much but ISSTH and ATG which has harem is more enjoyable for me. 
    issth is not a harem -_-
    we will see, for me it's just a matter of time ;)
    considering meng hao's personality, i highly doubt it's going to happen
    Understand basic grammar:
    Your vs You're
    There vs Their vs They're
    Defiantly vs Definitely
    Loose vs Lose
    Than vs Then
    To vs Too
    NO 'Should/Could of'

  • edited December 2015
    I don't like harems as well. Sometimes it feels forced, and over reaching. Sometimes it fits into the story and character.

    So its like so-so for me, I personally do not wish to read about lifeless dolls who just are just ecstatic to be near mc even if its not being the main chick. However, I also understand there is a community for harems and book live or die depending on it.. which is sad.
  • BookWorm said:

    Aliuss said:

    BookWorm said:

    Aliuss said:

    I think that big part of male population dreams about having a lot of women or at least being super popular. The same thing goes for women, they want for males to fight for them etc. 

    In xianxia MC are mosty ideal. Readers like to equate themselfs with MC. Thats why i think there is so much harem in xianxia. 
    I started my journey with xianxia only 3-4 months ago, and only novel i read so far without harem is CD. I liked it very much but ISSTH and ATG which has harem is more enjoyable for me. 
    issth is not a harem -_-
    we will see, for me it's just a matter of time ;)
    considering meng hao's personality, i highly doubt it's going to happen
    You may have some right there. Meng Hao is close to 30 years old or even older and he is still a virgin. There is something wrong with him in that way. 
  • I think Meng Hao is going to stick with Xu Qing, despite having many female admirer.

    And I agree with Lord Fifth, if there were harem in ISSTH it would be harem of furs and feathers.
  • edited December 2015
    personally i don't get why this person specifically dislikes/hates harems in xianxia. i could understand if this person has an issue with harems in any type but why xianxia? it makes no sense. any reason to dislike harems in xianxia has to do with poorly written romance. it's not the harems themselves but how they come to be.

    but overall, i don't mind xianxia harems. since romance as a whole is pretty poor, it doesn't matter if it's a single pair relationship or of the person has a whole squad of parterners. i try not to think about such things and just enjoy the story.

    now japanese harems on the other hand. now thoses are some seriously shitty harems. freaking dickless dudes surrounded by women. annoys the hell out of me. it was fine at first but once it became standard and common it just became annoying to read. the early ones before they became run of the mill were pretty decent with good characterization and decent romantic drama. but by the time highschool D&D came around the quality had dropped to the point where the only thing that kept them published is fanservice.
  • Vexram said:

    personally i don't get why this person specifically dislikes/hates harems in xianxia. i could understand if this person has an issue with harems in any type but why xianxia? it makes no sense. any reason to dislike harems in xianxia has to do with poorly written romance. it's not the harems themselves but how they come to be.

    but overall, i don't mind xianxia harems. since romance as a whole is pretty poor, it doesn't matter if it's a single pair relationship or of the person has a whole squad of parterners. i try not to think about such things and just enjoy the story.

    now japanese harems on the other hand. now thoses are some seriously shitty harems. freaking dickless dudes surrounded by women. annoys the hell out of me. it was fine at first but once it became standard and common it just became annoying to read. the early ones before they became run of the mill were pretty decent with good characterization and decent romantic drama. but by the time highschool D&D came around the quality had dropped to the point where the only thing that kept them published is fanservice.

    I agree with you in 100%. 
    Jap harems in anime/mangas/novels are so retarded that it blows your mind. 
  • edited December 2015
    So while I don't understand High School of DXD, I going to disagree and say that Japanese novel better variety of characters. Not all the character or likable or original (not cliche) but at least there's a better spectrum. Though I shall admit that I more fondness for the main characters in Chinese Novels.  Maybe I just being biased, but it seems likes the Chinese novels have more ambitious and determined characters. Then again maybe they have more straightforward and ruthless goals.

  • edited December 2015
    In Japanese Harem Manga the focus is on the girls.  The role of the main is to be a generic placeholder, and just occasionally do or say something cool to explain why the colorful spectrum of more interesting girls orbit around him.  

    In Xiania the focus is on the main character.  The role of the bevy of beauties is to be a collectible status symbol displaying improvement in power and fame - and be a source of envy for rivals.

    Of course, those are the extreme trends.  The better stories in either genre actually form a compromise.
  • Tasear said:

    So while I don't understand High School of DXD, I going to disagree and say that Japanese novel better variety of characters. Not all the character or likable or original (not cliche) but at least there's a better spectrum. Though I shall admit that I more fondness for the main characters in Chinese Novels.  Maybe I just being biased, but it seems likes the Chinese novels have more ambitious and determined characters. Then again maybe they have more straightforward and ruthless goals.

    not gonna argue on the better variety of characters, but i'll just put out how bad most jap harem mangas are.

    high school DxD: MC is a super pervert who's itchin to have a harem and lot of sex. mofo gets his harem with women litterally throwing themselves at him. all of a sudden he doesn't have the dick or balls to do the deed. where'd all that gungho go? this is by far not even a rare scenario. (oh and did i mention the parents are totally ok with naked chicks in his room? yeah he's getting signs all over the place and still back out.)

    you also go harem manga's where the dude is in love with one character. doesn't care for the others but for some reason just can't seem to say no till the end. and by then he's fallen for another chick. usually the loli tsundere one. (DEATH TO ALL TSUNS) and it's just so annoying.

    sure there are a few gems here and there but mostly, you're stuck with harem manga's that are either pure fanservice or plotless mass of chaos.
  • Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Yea, DxD Sounds like a horrible read. I am lost as to why it's so mainstream.
  • Vexram said:


    Tasear said:

    So while I don't understand High School of DXD, I going to disagree and say that Japanese novel better variety of characters. Not all the character or likable or original (not cliche) but at least there's a better spectrum. Though I shall admit that I more fondness for the main characters in Chinese Novels.  Maybe I just being biased, but it seems likes the Chinese novels have more ambitious and determined characters. Then again maybe they have more straightforward and ruthless goals.

    not gonna argue on the better variety of characters, but i'll just put out how bad most jap harem mangas are.

    high school DxD: MC is a super pervert who's itchin to have a harem and lot of sex. mofo gets his harem with women litterally throwing themselves at him. all of a sudden he doesn't have the dick or balls to do the deed. where'd all that gungho go? this is by far not even a rare scenario. (oh and did i mention the parents are totally ok with naked chicks in his room? yeah he's getting signs all over the place and still back out.)

    you also go harem manga's where the dude is in love with one character. doesn't care for the others but for some reason just can't seem to say no till the end. and by then he's fallen for another chick. usually the loli tsundere one. (DEATH TO ALL TSUNS) and it's just so annoying.

    sure there are a few gems here and there but mostly, you're stuck with harem manga's that are either pure fanservice or plotless mass of chaos.

    Issei was traumatized after the first girl he fell in love with stabbed him and killed him. That's a pretty big reason as to why he doesn't make much progress. Another reason is the editors won't let any sex happen at all.
    Tasear said:

    Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Yea, DxD Sounds like a horrible read. I am lost as to why it's so mainstream.


    If you're looking for something serious, DxD isn't for you. If you're just looking for something fun to read, then I'd recommend it. I mean, there is a plot, believe it or not, but I found it's more fun to just shut off your brain and enjoy it.
  • edited December 2015
    Tasear said:

    Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Yea, DxD Sounds like a horrible read. I am lost as to why it's so mainstream.

    Your type of 'enjoyment' is different from others. Like someone else mentioned, it's a fun read. I'm not reading it for some serious ass action or tragedy. It's like going to a specific genre that you dislike, and then saying that the anime/manga sucks. 
  • edited December 2015


    Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Yea, DxD Sounds like a horrible read. I am lost as to why it's so mainstream.
    I read something like 12 vol of DxD. At first i really enjoyed it but after each volume it's getting worse and worse. At first it's funny but latter in time you are getting irritated by Issei acions. 
      
    I tried to find some xianxia animations but failed. Only one time on some facebook fanpage someone posted video and told it was xianxia. But I cant find it anymore :( 
    As I remember it was really cool. Looked like some game trailer with xianxia characters and epic powers. 
  • EliteHaz said:

    Tasear said:

    Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Yea, DxD Sounds like a horrible read. I am lost as to why it's so mainstream.

    You're type of 'enjoyment' is different from others. Like someone else mentioned, it's a fun read. I'm not reading it for some serious ass action or tragedy. It's like going to a specific genre that you dislike, and then saying that the anime/manga sucks. 
    You are right that was wrong of me.
  • Aliuss said:



    Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Yea, DxD Sounds like a horrible read. I am lost as to why it's so mainstream.
    I read something like 12 vol of DxD. At first i really enjoyed it but after each volume it's getting worse and worse. At first it's funny but latter in time you are getting irritated by Issei acions. 
      
    I tried to find some xianxia animations but failed. Only one time on some facebook fanpage someone posted video and told it was xianxia. But I cant find it anymore :( 
    As I remember it was really cool. Looked like some game trailer with xianxia characters and epic powers. 


    It would amazing to watch any Xianxia. The battle scene would be beyond epic for any novel even the ones we don't like to read. Can you imagine an animated verion of linley dragon form or meat jelly talking with Lord Fifth. :D
  • I found Ze Tian Ji animation, posted a link in the Girls in xianxia thread. 
  • Okay I going to agree with this one. It's like the Japanese animation. It's not interesting anymore. Speaking of things for a moment is there any Xianxia that has been animated or has a drama to it? I think that would be enjoyable.

    Here's a list of a few Xianxia Drama I've watched and enjoyed:

    Journey of Flower (50 episodes) 2015
    Chinese Paladin 1 (34 episodes) 2005
    Chinese Paladin 3 (37 episodes) 2009 *(Paladin 2 & 4 weren't made into TV-Series, and Paladin 5 doesn't have English subtitles sadly)
    Rift in the Sky (36 episodes) 2012 --> very very bad CGI

    Note that they use heavy CGI for special effects, and it's quite amateurish. There's lots of romances, obviously since it's called Dramas. Some of the plots could be consider dumb or unreasonable, but if you understand that their actions derive from a Chinese code of honor called Yiqi, it kind of make sense. Not logical, but it make sense. It resemble the European medieval knight code of honor. 
  • Thanks, I will investigate these.
  • If you like those you might want to check out.
    Xuan Yuan Sword
    Legend of the Ancient Sword
  • edited December 2015
    Why do I keep typing you're when I mean your zzzzzzzzzzz. If any xianxia were to be made into an animation I would want to see it with ISSTH or ATG. Just to see the difference between all the flawless, jade-like smooth skin, ruby lip girls. 
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