World Destroying Demonic Emperor

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  • elon said:
    radcora said:
    Shahmali said:
    radcora said:
    elon said:
    Shahmali said:
    radcora said:
    Shahmali said:
    radcora said:
    elon said:
    Shahmali said:
    elon said:
    Shahmali said:
    about suo lun getting exposed as demon emperor in human state
    Spoiler:
    I think it was all plotted by faceless man. first reason is he did not need to give tear of devil to ashi luo . he could give it to him after he accomplished his last wish and came to him. although ashi luo does not know but we know that to become death knight , he first needs to die. so giving him tear of devil ahead of time is useless and meaningless. remember all the other death knights like zhi li , yan mo etc were given much later after they meet faceless man and they turned into hell knight at the spot. they were not given it carry around.  . second reason DDT sky priest admits that hell knights are impossible to locate , they appear and disappear . so to locate and kill them they even allow lan ling's existence. so for DDT to find tear of devil is impossible if they can not find hell knight. so I think headless man deliberately gave tear of devil to ashi luo knowing that it may fall into the hands of DDT. then what may be the reason for this. that is because he wants suo lun to die . and be reborn as devil. and become archenemy with DDT. because  he is host of demon star and all the previous hosts apart from dragon emperor had become demon emperor or sided with demons. and hell knights give loyalty to demon emperor. so if no ashi luo case , suo lun would be left to be , DDT could not find decisive evidence even if they suspected him. then what would suo lun do? he would raid barbarian territory meaning he would become enemy with demon clan. so this is not what faceless man wants. he wants him to become demon emperor and destroy DDT. so I think this the plot of him 
    Spoiler:
    Do you think faceless man also has another identity(someone that's already been introduced with a name)?

    Spoiler:
    it would be hard to guess without clue.  before I thought he was hell knight . but at latest chapter lan sisi says that some faceless man saved them and she calls him prophet . so I think he is not hell knight . what do you think?

    Spoiler:
    So far we know the identities of four hell knights but there is five, the headless knight's identity still hasn't been confirmed, at first I thought that the Headless knight could be Suo Hanyi because MC beheaded him earlier but his limbs were also cutoff so it's not necessarily him but I think he would be most suited for how he was an obstacle for the MC just like Zhi Li and the others. MC also beheaded that duke guy, the king's brother so it could also be him but it could also be someone that was killed indirectly by him since none of the known hell knights were killed directly by him.

    The hell knights being awakened so far have been done by someone else, the first person I remember doing it was the Headless knight. But who awakened the headless knight? - it was probably the faceless man. If the faceless man is a hell knight then who awakened him? - So for now I also think that faceless man isn't an hell knight. If he truly cares about demon emperor or demon clan then maybe he has ancient time memories like Nai'er.
    But what is his true motive? Is he truly looking out for the demon emperor/demon clan? We have learnt recently that the DDT has plans in place to sway the MC into becoming dragon emperor but is the faceless man somehow involved or is he 100 percent opposing DDT?
    Spoiler:
    In one of the earlier chapters Zhi Li, Lan Tu, Yan Mo and Headless hell knight were discussing how to get Ashi Luo's soul fragment back from DDT and faceless man was also present but when they set out it was mention that four hell knights went so faceless man can't be a hell knight otherwise they would have mentioned that it was five hell knights unless it was an error.

    Maybe headless knight is not related to anyone who was killed directly or indirectly by Lan Ling otherwise for what reason would the author need to hide his identity.
    Spoiler:
    he will become so called dragon emperor , meaning he wont have authority, only puppet serving to manipulate the masses. also DDT will be milking him for all his knowledge about energy studies. apparently DDT is not omnipotent , hell if moon does not exist they will surely lose fight to demon clan. I speculate that they can not contact moon otherwise they would not need dragon emperor help them on space magic study and build dragon smelting trial prison. therefore host of demon star is like a stephen hawking of  our society. they are all omnipotent and have advanced knowledge about energy. on the other hand DDT is only studying what crumbs dragon emperor has left behind. they do not have access to the knowledge host of demon star has. that is why they need lan ling .now that lan ling is present it is heaven given opportunity. after lan ling is defeated they will negotiate for the lives of his captured family and even use real lankou IDK. they will let him learn all the knowledge about energy and choose dragon emperor and use him until demon star leaves him. so I donot see the betrayal of faceless man. at one occasion his betrayal would be meaningful if lan ling emerged victorious this time. about headless knight , I want to suggest the head of knights who was beheaded . maybe he did not die and is the same guy . 
    Spoiler:
    The headless hell knight certainly fits the description as I also remember Na Xue say that the first child was beheaded and I think he was also their leader just as he seems to be now. 

    Do you know when the faceless man was first introduced?  I ask because I skipped some dialogue of Ashi Luo as I felt the guy too disgusting when he was trying to harass woman that were no threat to him. So I'm not sure if I missed any interaction between him and the faceless man. If you can remember the faceless man's interactions with anyone else that would also be helpful.
    ch 274 was his first time appearance I think. other one was when all hell knights candidates came together. 
    Thanks, looks like I also missed that.
    Spoiler:
    So faceless person's gender is unknown. After reading it I also feel that faceless person might be putting the demon clan first possibly even above the demon star host because the path the faceless may have manipulated Lan Ling on to seems extremely dangerous/risky. It seems like faceless man's plan could lead to either demon clan rising or demon star host dies trying all with the purpose of trying to help the demons and bring back the hell knights or maybe that person is programmed that way.
    Spoiler:
    It certainly looks that way. Faceless responsible for Lan Ling's family being captured and his territory destroyed, imagine all those loyal to Tianshui city, their deaths and suffering could have been avoided. How devastated Nai'er would be upon learning how her father died. I wonder how Lan Ling will react should or when he finds out the truth.
    Do you think Faceless knew that Lan Ling was the demon star host before or after he was exposed by Fu Lingxi?
    Spoiler:
    I think if faceless plotted the death of demon star host then he should know who he is. because otherwise he would really die unless he had that dragon energy crystal. so he must know , how ? I do not know
    Spoiler:
    If faceless knew MC's identity before Fu Lingxi then he wrote the MC's wives and family a death sentence. I just thought there might've been a possibility that it happened around the same time or after because headless knight was sent to rescue some of them. It seemed like it all happened last minute. So if faceless knew ahead of time then he practically sentenced Lan Ling's wives and Tianshui city subjects to death. There shouldn't be any excuse, faceless should've prepared for his family's safety ahead of time unless faceless is the reason his family wasn't killed but even his Tianshui subjects didn't deserve to die, Qinshao's mother and Nai'er's father. That's brutal, may not be considered any better than the DDT.

    Spoiler:
    The dragon crystal makes a lot of sense however if true it's very disappointing, it would seem like for faceless plans to be successful it was based on the fact that he was lucky. First demon star host in 3000 years and he also picks up that rare dragon flame crystal .Then again maybe the faceless got some kind of connection to the crystal or place where it was hidden, also the incomplete soul in Jiang Xue's sword could have temporarily taken control of her body and contacted the faceless to let him know about the demon star host.  

    The faceless seems very mysterious would've been better if he had his own method of resurrecting Demon star host or letting him rebirth as the demon star host his body shouldn't have been normal. I think all demon star hosts have rebirth in-order for them to have both dragon blood and devil blood in their body. I don't know if anyone knows whether the Dragon crystal is a prerequisite for it to happen but if faceless got his own method of resurrecting demon star host or letting him rebirth then maybe the dragon crystal wasn't necessary but coincidental.
    Faceless also has a lot of courage to put the family of Lan Ling in such a situation. If he observed him he should know that it was an extremely bad idea, Duke Zhi Ting would rather let Zhi Li usurp the throne them let Lan Ling's child get harmed. 

    Yes, I think faceless probably knew ahead of time. If Fu Lingxi can find WDDE with devil tears provided by Faceless, then faceless must have his own methods and if headless was resurrected much earlier then he probably can also sense MC.


    Spoiler:
    One of the things I have doubts about though how faceless hadn't prepared to save Lan Ling's relatives surely he knows Lan Ling will be pissed off not just that if they are captured by DDT as hostages his plan could backfire. Also was it really necessary for him to use/waste the precious devil tear to expose WDDE, we see Ashi Liren can recognize WDDE power when Lan Ling uses it, faceless could have created a situation where Lan Ling’s power as WDDE was exposed. 
  • edited May 2017
    radcora said:
    elon said:

    Spoiler:
    The dragon crystal makes a lot of sense however if true it's very disappointing, it would seem like for faceless plans to be successful it was based on the fact that he was lucky. First demon star host in 3000 years and he also picks up that rare dragon flame crystal .Then again maybe the faceless got some kind of connection to the crystal or place where it was hidden, also the incomplete soul in Jiang Xue's sword could have temporarily taken control of her body and contacted the faceless to let him know about the demon star host.  

    The faceless seems very mysterious would've been better if he had his own method of resurrecting Demon star host or letting him rebirth as the demon star host his body shouldn't have been normal. I think all demon star hosts have rebirth in-order for them to have both dragon blood and devil blood in their body. I don't know if anyone knows whether the Dragon crystal is a prerequisite for it to happen but if faceless got his own method of resurrecting demon star host or letting him rebirth then maybe the dragon crystal wasn't necessary but coincidental.
    Faceless also has a lot of courage to put the family of Lan Ling in such a situation. If he observed him he should know that it was an extremely bad idea, Duke Zhi Ting would rather let Zhi Li usurp the throne them let Lan Ling's child get harmed. 

    Yes, I think faceless probably knew ahead of time. If Fu Lingxi can find WDDE with devil tears provided by Faceless, then faceless must have his own methods and if headless was resurrected much earlier then he probably can also sense MC.


    Spoiler:
    One of the things I have doubts about though how faceless hadn't prepared to save Lan Ling's relatives surely he knows Lan Ling will be pissed off not just that if they are captured by DDT as hostages his plan could backfire. Also was it really necessary for him to use/waste the precious devil tear to expose WDDE, we see Ashi Liren can recognize WDDE power when Lan Ling uses it, faceless could have created a situation where Lan Ling’s power as WDDE was exposed. 
    Spoiler:
    Those are really good points. I think it's difficult to speculate accurately about faceless. There's so many questions. Is he really looking out for demon emperor/ demon clan. He helps resurrect hell knights , he lets 3 out of 5 possibly go to their deaths. Like you also said he didn't prevent MC's family from becoming hostages. Sacrificing the devil's tear . If he's really helping demon clan he's taking so huge gamble. If Headless,Lan Tu and Yan Mo were to die only him and two hell knights will be alive to await next demon star host, by then probably all will be eliminated. Demon clan hope be destroyed. 
  • edited May 2017
    elon said:
    radcora said:
    Spoiler:
    One of the things I have doubts about though how faceless hadn't prepared to save Lan Ling's relatives surely he knows Lan Ling will be pissed off not just that if they are captured by DDT as hostages his plan could backfire. Also was it really necessary for him to use/waste the precious devil tear to expose WDDE, we see Ashi Liren can recognize WDDE power when Lan Ling uses it, faceless could have created a situation where Lan Ling’s power as WDDE was exposed. 
    Spoiler:
    Those are really good points. I think it's difficult to speculate accurately about faceless. There's so many questions. Is he really looking out for demon emperor/ demon clan. He helps resurrect hell knights , he lets 3 out of 5 possibly go to their deaths. Like you also said he didn't prevent MC's family from becoming hostages. Sacrificing the devil's tear . If he's really helping demon clan he's taking so huge gamble. If Headless,Lan Tu and Yan Mo were to die only him and two hell knights will be alive to await next demon star host, by then probably all will be eliminated. Demon clan hope be destroyed. 
    Spoiler:
    You'd think if the faceless is looking out for demon clan he wouldn't want to piss off the future demon emperor and if he is looking out for the future demon emperor then he still wouldn't want to piss him off. 
    So many risks involved.eg - How faceless can guarantee that DDT won't somehow rob MC of the dragon crystal(if it was a prerequisite for his rebirth), MC's family was captured as hostage, giving up devils tear.
    If you think that faceless is either reckless or has ulterior motives then you can see some of the truth. eg- How headless knight know the MC's family and relatives identities so soon after he was exposed like Rock queen and Zhi Ning and his child. They must have paid some special attention to him in advance, so from that alone we can suspect that faceless knew MC's identity in advance. 
    Perhaps it's best to wait and see in later chapters for the truth about what really happened and who or what faceless really is.
  • Hey guys do you mind if I asked for a Favour? 

    I just started reading lnmtl of this novel and was curious about some stuff you likely mentioned in you're conversations but it's impossible to do so because of ho many message you quote just look at the mess from the latest reply, when you are going to be replying please remove the most of the messages that are not needed anymore because those of us that are interested in reading them can't do so.

    so the favour is when you are replying either don't quote or remove 75% of the old messages that are included in the quote. The first page of this thread is also such a mess, it's difficult to get any proper spoilers.
  • Hey guys do you mind if I asked for a Favour? 

    I just started reading lnmtl of this novel and was curious about some stuff you likely mentioned in you're conversations but it's impossible to do so because of ho many message you quote just look at the mess from the latest reply, when you are going to be replying please remove the most of the messages that are not needed anymore because those of us that are interested in reading them can't do so.

    so the favour is when you are replying either don't quote or remove 75% of the old messages that are included in the quote. The first page of this thread is also such a mess, it's difficult to get any proper spoilers.
    sounds like a good idea, all that quotes make my eyes dizzy
  • edited May 2017
    You'd think if the faceless is looking out for demon clan he wouldn't want to piss off the future demon emperor and if he is looking out for the future demon emperor then he still wouldn't want to piss him off. 

    So many risks involved.eg - How faceless can guarantee that DDT won't somehow rob MC of the dragon crystal(if it was a prerequisite for his rebirth), MC's family was captured as hostage, giving up devils tear.
    If you think that faceless is either reckless or has ulterior motives then you can see some of the truth. eg- How headless knight know the MC's family and relatives identities so soon after he was exposed like Rock queen and Zhi Ning and his child. They must have paid some special attention to him in advance, so from that alone we can suspect that faceless knew MC's identity in advance. 
    Perhaps it's best to wait and see in later chapters for the truth about what really happened and who or what faceless really is.

    Spoiler:
    I can give you three reasons
    1. lan ling was human , he was going to crusade against demon clan/ in future he would certainly accept dragon emperor inheritance so he was going to be enemy. 
    2. if he informed his family and they escaped then lan ling would not feel as much hate he feels now. also this made his growth accelerate.
    3. I think faceless is genius if he really plotted his death, from the speech of host of demon star pavilion we know that disclosure of lan ling identity was not wanted at that time. they were waiting to let be him dragon emperor and using coersion, threat or other method use him to serve their purposes. so fulinxi 's act ruined their plan.
    also he should be indifferent toward the lives of lan ling family like the energy life in demon trial. even if lan ling gets angry he at most will kill him so it does not hinder him doing what he did.
  • edited May 2017
    Nevermind.....
  • edited May 2017
    Shahmali said:

    Spoiler:
    thank you for listing hell knights neatly. why I say that headless knight is reincarnated or reactivated into somebody known by mc is because other 4 were done so. there should be some pattern , right? we definitely know that if hell knight died he disappears. if not then he goes on living . in what form? in the form of tear of devil. then this tear is poured into a candidate and he is activated as hell knight. according to this logic headless also should be activated the same way. as for him remembering 3000 year ago stuff it could be that he retains those memories. then there is a question : where are other trace unknown hell knights ? according to previous logic if host of demon star dies then they turn into tear of devil and wait for the next one. but we can conclude from the talk of headless knight that unknown hell knights are alive. then that means that hell knights not necessarily turn into tear of devil. also it seems that lan tu does not know what exactly happened 3000 years ago . was he not there or he is new person that is why he does not remember. then this means headless has not turned into tear of devil and reactivated. then he is not someone lan ling knows. but apart from captured and dead hell knights why 4 of them were in the form of tear ? did they shut of their conscience and turn into tear willingly? there is so many questions so I do not know but If I had to guess who headless is I can not . because him being headless bugs me. why he does not have head . also ashi luo does not have arm. yan mo does not have genital. I am very confused
    No problem. Feel free to update the list if you get any new info.
  • A quick question what happens to zhi li, the adoptive siblings of the sou siblings and black widow...
  • DeathStroke96 said:to pieces
    A quick question what happens to zhi li, the adoptive siblings of the sou siblings and black widow...
    Spoiler:
    he gets his manhood cut off , injects blood of devil to restore. later is defeated by suo lun at the final battle. using suo lun son as hostage ascends throne . but her wife sells him to DDT. captured , commited suicide. 
    suo hanyi, male adoptive sibling while drunk has sex with zhi tingyi wife , then zhi ning uses this info to make him rebel . suo lun makes war with him. collaborates with naer defeats him , cuts his all limbs , cuts his head.
    female is in coma , suo lun saves her, she sides with suo lun , play a role in the death of suo hanyi. later she adopts his son and lives on.
    black widow knows suo lun is world destroying demonic emperor , pledges that if he one day becomes demon emperor she will become her subordinate. but when lan ling becomes demon clan tribe chief she does not side him , instead becomes lackey of naxue , mutuo empire princess. she opposes lan ling , sides his enemies , does her best to make lan ling vanish. later is thrown by naxue into hen of hell dogs . is ripped to pieces.
  • Di Ming ch 908:
    Spoiler:
    Anyone think he died or just put out of commission temporarily?
  • Shahmali said:
    DeathStroke96 said:to pieces
    A quick question what happens to zhi li, the adoptive siblings of the sou siblings and black widow...
    Spoiler:
    he gets his manhood cut off , injects blood of devil to restore. later is defeated by suo lun at the final battle. using suo lun son as hostage ascends throne . but her wife sells him to DDT. captured , commited suicide. 
    suo hanyi, male adoptive sibling while drunk has sex with zhi tingyi wife , then zhi ning uses this info to make him rebel . suo lun makes war with him. collaborates with naer defeats him , cuts his all limbs , cuts his head.
    female is in coma , suo lun saves her, she sides with suo lun , play a role in the death of suo hanyi. later she adopts his son and lives on.
    black widow knows suo lun is world destroying demonic emperor , pledges that if he one day becomes demon emperor she will become her subordinate. but when lan ling becomes demon clan tribe chief she does not side him , instead becomes lackey of naxue , mutuo empire princess. she opposes lan ling , sides his enemies , does her best to make lan ling vanish. later is thrown by naxue into hen of hell dogs . is ripped to pieces.
    Thanks, btw does zhi yan become mcs wife? Because around c90 the king said that he found the perfect husband for his daughter and I thought that it was pointing to the mc...

  • Thanks, btw does zhi yan become mcs wife? Because around c90 the king said that he found the perfect husband for his daughter and I thought that it was pointing to the mc...
    Spoiler:
    Yes she does.
  • elon said:
    Thanks, btw does zhi yan become mcs wife? Because around c90 the king said that he found the perfect husband for his daughter and I thought that it was pointing to the mc...
    Spoiler:
    Yes she does.
    Thanks!!
  • elon said:
    Di Ming ch 908:
    Spoiler:
    Anyone think he died or just put out of commission temporarily?
    Spoiler:
    he only has control over his life and death. others he can not control. and I think he does not need show mercy anymore. he has no need of di ming. and naxue also has already crossed his limit of forbearance. his death would be good strategy to make naxue emotional and lose calm. so I do not see any reason why he should not kill him.
  • elon said:
    Di Ming ch 908:
    Spoiler:
    Anyone think he died or just put out of commission temporarily?
    Spoiler:
    I wonder if MC can make him into puppet like the DDT guys he picked up with spiritual contract.
  • edited May 2017
    Shahmali said:

    I can give you three reasons

    1. lan ling was human , he was going to crusade against demon clan/ in future he would certainly accept dragon emperor inheritance so he was going to be enemy. 
    2. if he informed his family and they escaped then lan ling would not feel as much hate he feels now. also this made his growth accelerate.
    3. I think faceless is genius if he really plotted his death, from the speech of host of demon star pavilion we know that disclosure of lan ling identity was not wanted at that time. they were waiting to let be him dragon emperor and using coersion, threat or other method use him to serve their purposes. so fulinxi 's act ruined their plan.
    also he should be indifferent toward the lives of lan ling family like the energy life in demon trial. even if lan ling gets angry he at most will kill him so it does not hinder him doing what he did.
    Thanks, I get what you saying in this scenario:
    Spoiler:
    1. Faceless believes MC is a threat but we know MC didn't care much about martial arts so not impossible but unlikely he'd be strong enough to get dragon emperor inheritance. Angry wave's kingdom too weak to conquer Demon territory. Even his human kingdom explosives are weak as seen in recent chapters.
    2.Why I say letting MC's family become hostage is bad idea because DDT can blackmail him with them and could result in harming demon clan and what if MC became a repeat of dragon emperor to save his family, luckily this MC is outstanding as proven in hell level smelting trials. If MC finds out faceless harmed his family to help demon it's possible he could've gone crazy and taken his frustration out on the Demons.
    3. I'm not sure if I recall that they knew Demon star host's identity before using the devil's tears which was given by faceless indirectly but I remember Huai Bingyi claims in his thoughts that he was the only one who supposedly knew because MC was smarter than him who had a modified brain. 

    I do see Faceless(depending on the way he thinks) wanting to eliminate any possibility even if only a 1% chance that MC might become dragon emperor. So to him MC is a tool and a possible threat, just another demon star host, rather let him die than leaving him with any possibility of becoming dragon emperor and if he becomes real demon emperor along the way, then hey, Why not?

    Shahmali You might want edit your comment to hide the spoilers.
  • @radcora  thanks bro , I was trying to delete all previous messages then it got messed up. 
  • edited May 2017
    elon said:
    Di Ming ch 908:
    Spoiler:
    Anyone think he died or just put out of commission temporarily?
    Spoiler:
    MC shut off the relation of his brain territory and Energy Heart so he is not dead or at-least not completely dead yet.
  • Na Xue cultivation level:
    Spoiler:
    Sub-king of Earth Rank peak. Not sure what the earth rank means but if anyone knows feel free to share.
  • edited May 2017
    radcora said:
    Na Xue cultivation level:
    Spoiler:
    Sub-king of Earth Rank peak. Not sure what the earth rank means but if anyone knows feel free to share.
    Spoiler:
    In the latest chapter we learn that Lanling's current level is a demon rank sub-king with 4 or 5 stars while Di Nie and Na Xue are earth rank sub-king's. I think each rank has the same amount of stars as regular realms before they breakthrough the next rank. Probably 9 or 10 stars in each rank.

    There is Demon rank: several stars
                  Earth rank: several stars
                  heaven rank: several stars

    All ranks exist within Sub-King level.
  • Shahmali said:
    elon said:
    About Na Xue:
    Spoiler:
    Now that we know Di Nie is either the 7th Hell knight or related to the 7th hell knight, it seems very likely that Na Xue is also either a hell knight or related to one of the hell knights.
    Spoiler:
    could be related 4. child . she had said that they share some origin
    Spoiler:
    Na Xue wanting to be independent sounds the same as ghost king founding his own kingdom and the jealousy for people following demon star host sounds like if she were related to ghost king then she must be butt-hurt that other demons didn't come flocking to join ghost kingdom to plead loyalty like they meant to for demon star host. 
  • Is Yan Yan dead? (Father of Yan nai'er - silver wolf mercenary group) or is he in some kind of a coma and would wake up soon..
  • Is Yan Yan dead? (Father of Yan nai'er - silver wolf mercenary group) or is he in some kind of a coma and would wake up soon..
    Spoiler:
    Not entirely sure if he is dead but some powerful souls that require huge amounts of energy occupied his body but MC will find a way to wake him up by removing those souls from his body. Once MC does that Yan Yan will be alive and awake.
  • radcora said:
    Is Yan Yan dead? (Father of Yan nai'er - silver wolf mercenary group) or is he in some kind of a coma and would wake up soon..
    Spoiler:
    Not entirely sure if he is dead but some powerful souls that require huge amounts of energy occupied his body but MC will find a way to wake him up by removing those souls from his body. Once MC does that Yan Yan will be alive and awake.
    Thanks for the info
  • edited May 2017
    Tian Sha King's cultivation level?
  • edited May 2017
    elon said:
    Tian Sha King's cultivation level?
    Spoiler:
    Should be Earth rank sub-king but don't know how many stars.
  • edited May 2017
    radcora said:
    elon said:
    Tian Sha King's cultivation level?
    Spoiler:
    Should be Earth rank sub-king but don't know how many stars.
    Witch Queen level?
  • elon said:
    Witch Queen level?
    Spoiler:
    Di Nie is earth rank peak sub king and Witch Queen is around the same level as her or slightly weaker. She must be earth rank sub-king but don't know how many stars. 
  • radcora said:
    elon said:
    Witch Queen level?
    Spoiler:
    Di Nie is earth rank peak sub king and Witch Queen is around the same level as her or slightly weaker. She must be earth rank sub-king but don't know how many stars. 
    Jiang Shang level?
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