Which Xianxia/Wuxia Protagonist can take on Classic Sun Wukong on and defeat him?

My money is on Li Qiye, what do you guys think?

Comments

  • Assuming that the plot armor of both MCs cancel each other out (b/c Wukong definitely had plot armor), I don't think anyone would be able to actually beat him in a straight up fight. I think he's literally the strongest MC of all the MCs from any story ever written. He had a giant mountain sit on him for 500 years and the actual deity Buddha had to trick him to seal him and nothing happened to him after his seal was released (as if he was never hurt). He is literally immortal as opposed to these fake "immortals" that have very long lives but can be killed in xianxia/xuanhuan.

    Now, if you are asking if he can be beaten as in outsmarted, yes. I believe the Monkey King's greatest weakness is his hubris in thinking he's the greatest and strongest and smartest and he can probably be fooled by someone very cunning. Leylin Farlier from WMW comes to mind. Yun Che from Against The Gods.  Maybe Yan Zhaoge from History's Strongest Senior Brother (but he may not be strong enough to contend with Wukong regardless of his intelligence).

    And no, I don't think Li Qiye can do it. Take away his plot armor and negate his knowledge of the past (b/c Wukong is a long lived immortal as well and he's also a cunning genius) and he's cooked. There was literally never any sense of danger when I read Journey To the West b/c Wukong solved every problem in the end b/c of his overwhelming strength. It was in a realm much much higher to LI Qiye's strength.
  • Ji ning from desolate era could probably defeat him, sun wu kong is present in that novel and ji ning gets strong enough to literally destoy a chaosverse, which is like a universe but not really
  • edited July 2018
    Ji ning from desolate era could probably defeat him, sun wu kong is present in that novel and ji ning gets strong enough to literally destoy a chaosverse, which is like a universe but not really
    Ji Ning is far above that. I mean the world he reincarnated from when he was 14, was a universe in itself(basically our own universe) , and Pangu Chaosworld had millions upon millions of similar minor "worlds"(universes). A single realm in a Chaosverse contains basically near infinite amount of Chaosworlds. And a Chaosverse contains near an uncountable amount of "realms"(as in metaverses = combination of multiple multiverses).

    And Ji Ning basically stands above everything i just mentioned.He basically becomes an outerversal god. Let that sink in for a second.

    And yes , Its been a long time since Journey to The West came out. We're bound to have stronger protagonists by now. Ji Ning, Li Qiye are 2 of the characters that are undoubtedly stronger 
  • Don't most Xianxia characters near the end trump Sun Wukong? Sun Wukong can lift up two mountains before it got too heavy (against King Silver horn or whatever his name is). Meng Hao from ISSTH recreated entire worlds. Let me just put this in perspective. Entire planets which from the description is bigger than the Sun. The mass is several orders of magnitude larger than a mere mountain.

    Now I haven't finished coiling dragon or stellar transformations (not likely to), but the MCs create entire universes at the end, so yeah, most will triumph over Sun Wukong.
  • Don't most Xianxia characters near the end trump Sun Wukong? Sun Wukong can lift up two mountains before it got too heavy (against King Silver horn or whatever his name is). Meng Hao from ISSTH recreated entire worlds. Let me just put this in perspective. Entire planets which from the description is bigger than the Sun. The mass is several orders of magnitude larger than a mere mountain.

    Now I haven't finished coiling dragon or stellar transformations (not likely to), but the MCs create entire universes at the end, so yeah, most will triumph over Sun Wukong.
    Sun Wukong travelled "infinite" distance in a few seconds to get out of the reach of Buddha's palm, but later finds out it was impossible, since Buddha himself represents the entire creation. Later on, they fought for so long, that Wukong gained Omniscience and Omnipresence, and Buddha being an almost omnipotent existence, still failed to do anything to Wukong through the whole fight. so yeah, Wukong is very strong even when compared to other similar works of fiction
  • edited July 2018
    Don't most Xianxia characters near the end trump Sun Wukong? Sun Wukong can lift up two mountains before it got too heavy (against King Silver horn or whatever his name is). Meng Hao from ISSTH recreated entire worlds. Let me just put this in perspective. Entire planets which from the description is bigger than the Sun. The mass is several orders of magnitude larger than a mere mountain.

    Now I haven't finished coiling dragon or stellar transformations (not likely to), but the MCs create entire universes at the end, so yeah, most will triumph over Sun Wukong.
    I am going to  add a bit more information. The mass of Mt Everest according to google is estimated at 357 trillion pounds which converts to 1.61E14 kg.
    Lets be generous and assume this is Wukong's upper limit of strength. 

    In ISSTH chapter 1597 -  Jin Yunshan (at transcendence) destroys entire land masses and planets hurled at him by Meng Hao’s trap. This was Meng Hao's trap and it was hurling entire planets. So if we assume an earth size planet (reasonable given the size of the planets in ISSTH which MH reconstructs) that means Meng Hao's magical trap itself can hurl a mass of  5.9736E24 kg ie mass of Earth.

     That's 37,103,105,590 times (around 37 billion times) more than the mass of Everest and most probably 37 billion times what Sun Wukong can lift.

    If we use calculations rather than just gut feeling its easily seen Xianxia characters outclass Wukong. This is for Xianxia at least where enough information is given for us to make an educated calculation of their abilities.

    So ISSTH is one which gives a lot of useful info, Martial World also gives enough, for example a statement about an Empyrean able to break apart a planet with diameter of 100 million miles in one blow (hint this planet will have a radius of 8E10 metres, compared to earth's  6.371E6 metres, ie its more than 10,000 times the radius of earth).

    Another one which gives us useful information is Against the Gods, where the battle between Mu Xuanyin and Cai Zhi – has a fireball in a 500 km radius turning living things to dust. So we can plug that into the nuclear weapons calculator and find that its yield dwarfs the most powerful nuke ever made. 

    So I am going to reiterate, using numbers, a lot of xianxia characters just outclass Wukong. For xianxia which don't give much numbers to work with eg Record of a mortal's journey to immortality, its a bit harder, since you are comparing and unknown quantity to a known quantity.
  • edited July 2018
    Don't most Xianxia characters near the end trump Sun Wukong? Sun Wukong can lift up two mountains before it got too heavy (against King Silver horn or whatever his name is). Meng Hao from ISSTH recreated entire worlds. Let me just put this in perspective. Entire planets which from the description is bigger than the Sun. The mass is several orders of magnitude larger than a mere mountain.

    Now I haven't finished coiling dragon or stellar transformations (not likely to), but the MCs create entire universes at the end, so yeah, most will triumph over Sun Wukong.
    I am going to  add a bit more information. The mass of Mt Everest according to google is estimated at 357 trillion pounds which converts to 1.61E14 kg.
    Lets be generous and assume this is Wukong's upper limit of strength. 

    In ISSTH chapter 1597 -  Jin Yunshan (at transcendence) destroys entire land masses and planets hurled at him by Meng Hao’s trap. This was Meng Hao's trap and it was hurling entire planets. So if we assume an earth size planet (reasonable given the size of the planets in ISSTH which MH reconstructs) that means Meng Hao's magical trap itself can hurl a mass of  5.9736E24 kg ie mass of Earth.

     That's 37,103,105,590 times (around 37 billion times) more than the mass of Everest and most probably 37 billion times what Sun Wukong can lift.

    If we use calculations rather than just gut feeling its easily seen Xianxia characters outclass Wukong. This is for Xianxia at least where enough information is given for us to make an educated calculation of their abilities.

    So ISSTH is one which gives a lot of useful info, Martial World also gives enough, for example a statement about an Empyrean able to break apart a planet with diameter of 100 million miles in one blow (hint this planet will have a radius of 8E10 metres, compared to earth's  6.371E6 metres, ie its more than 10,000 times the radius of earth).

    Another one which gives us useful information is Against the Gods, where the battle between Mu Xuanyin and Cai Zhi – has a fireball in a 500 km radius turning living things to dust. So we can plug that into the nuclear weapons calculator and find that its yield dwarfs the most powerful nuke ever made. 

    So I am going to reiterate, using numbers, a lot of xianxia characters just outclass Wukong. For xianxia which don't give much numbers to work with eg Record of a mortal's journey to immortality, its a bit harder, since you are comparing and unknown quantity to a known quantity.
    what are you talking about? why did you even think wukong lifting a mountain is his best feat? that probably happens in a single Book, when Buddha uses a seal(the halo above Wukong's head) to restrict most of his power. Maybe thats where "lifting a mountain" happens. You can even watch a semi-detailed video on Journey to the West to learn more about him.

    Also i summarised his overall power feats in my previous comment, read that.
    and for a few description over his stats and whatnot you can check this out ( https://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Wukong_(Myth) )


  • edited July 2018
    Because he got buried under 2 mountains by King Silver horn, which I stated earlier in the thread. I know Buddha used a seal on the mountain which buried him which is why I didn't  use that example. Now unless mountains in China were Everest size, I think using Everest is a reasonable starting point. 

    As for the feats listed in your link, its not source to which particular chapter in Journey to the West so it makes it hard to actually check. Its also full of no limits fallacies eg "can break any lock," or outright wrong statements like "immunity to fire and water," (then how did he get hurt by the Hong Hai Er's Samadhi fire) etc. 

    Also peppered with useless statements like  being "omnipotent"  which doesn't mean anything, how  can you be omnipotent? Can an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? If he can then he can't be omnipotent because he can't lift the rock, and if he can't create the rock, he isn't omnipotent because that's a feat that is beyond him. Saying someone is omnipotent contributes nothing to analysis. Its used in fiction synonymously with powerful, instead of what it should mean.

    What matters in analysis, is numbers. And if he gets buried by ordinary mountains then that's his best feat as ordinary size. 

    And yes I have seen the Chinese version of journey to the West (1986 version) when it came out in the 80s and read an abridge version of the novel in the 80s as well. He gets buried under mountains by the King of Silver horn and requires help from the local earth and mountain gods to lift it up. In fact lets look at the 1986 version this episode since  you suggested I look up videos of it.


    Time index 16 minutes. Wukong tries to break a magical ground to get hold of the rensen fruit, which is buried under the ground. He couldn't even make a dent in it. The English translation has the local earth god telling him the ground is harder than wrought iron, but if you understand Chinese, the earth god states its 3 times harder than iron. Iron has a compressive strength of 220 MPa. Even if you  triple that to 660 MPa, that's actually less than some modern carbon fibers.

    So he can't make a dent in something that strong, which is less than materials modern science can build, I am already being generous in assuming lifting a mountain strength as an upper limit.
  • Because he got buried under 2 mountains by King Silver horn, which I stated earlier in the thread. I know Buddha used a seal on the mountain which buried him which is why I didn't  use that example. Now unless mountains in China were Everest size, I think using Everest is a reasonable starting point. 

    As for the feats listed in your link, its not source to which particular chapter in Journey to the West so it makes it hard to actually check. Its also full of no limits fallacies eg "can break any lock," or outright wrong statements like "immunity to fire and water," (then how did he get hurt by the Hong Hai Er's Samadhi fire) etc. 

    Also peppered with useless statements like  being "omnipotent"  which doesn't mean anything, how  can you be omnipotent? Can an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? If he can then he can't be omnipotent because he can't lift the rock, and if he can't create the rock, he isn't omnipotent because that's a feat that is beyond him. Saying someone is omnipotent contributes nothing to analysis. Its used in fiction synonymously with powerful, instead of what it should mean.

    What matters in analysis, is numbers. And if he gets buried by ordinary mountains then that's his best feat as ordinary size. 

    And yes I have seen the Chinese version of journey to the West (1986 version) when it came out in the 80s and read an abridge version of the novel in the 80s as well. He gets buried under mountains by the King of Silver horn and requires help from the local earth and mountain gods to lift it up. In fact lets look at the 1986 version this episode since  you suggested I look up videos of it.


    Time index 16 minutes. Wukong tries to break a magical ground to get hold of the rensen fruit, which is buried under the ground. He couldn't even make a dent in it. The English translation has the local earth god telling him the ground is harder than wrought iron, but if you understand Chinese, the earth god states its 3 times harder than iron. Iron has a compressive strength of 220 MPa. Even if you  triple that to 660 MPa, that's actually less than some modern carbon fibers.

    So he can't make a dent in something that strong, which is less than materials modern science can build, I am already being generous in assuming lifting a mountain strength as an upper limit.
    The man beat a whole army of deities single handedly while 28 of them where embodiments of constellations, almost out ran Buddha(whos domain is all of existence) and only got stopped becasue he believed he already outran existence,meaning he ran *Infinite* distance in mere seconds, pissed on Buddhas hand(not really relevant but funny), his greatest feat being lifting the Celestial River, while it was considered infinite. The River here is basically the same as the Styx River from the Greek Mythos, of which size is infinite.
    Meaning that Wukong lifted a Physical body of infinite mass effortlessly.
  • What can these embodiments of constellations actually do? Not what you think they should be able to do, but what have actually demonstrated? Without actually quantifiable feats its essentially saying this character beat characters of unknown capability, therefore this character is powerful. Sorry, doesn't work that way. It just means he beat some characters with unknown capability.

    Lets show how silly analysing something by a fancy title is. He Man is the most powerful man in the universe. It says so in the opening credits. Therefore He Man will be able to beat any other fictional character who is a man in his universe, including powerful Xianxia characters. Hey, its in the title. The most powerful man in the universe. So the moment they enter He Man's universe he wins, most powerful man in the universe and all that.

    Superman. He is the man of Steel. So he is only as hard as steel. Lets try another one. Dictator Joseph Stalin was also the man of steel (Stalin translates from Russian to man of steel). Therefore he must have a body as hard as steel right?

    Fancy titles mean little. What matters is actual feats. Embodiments of constellations and deities sound powerful, but without feats it adds nothing to the discussion. 
    ******************************************************************************************************
    And if feats like lifting the Celestial river comes from a website who doesn't source the actual chapter and is already laughably wrong (immune to fire anyone), then I would disregard it. I mean, he gets almost burnt to death by the red boy king.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Boy

    Sun Wukong at first asks for some rain from the Eastern Dragon King to counter Red Boy's Samadhi Fire, to no avail (the Dragon King's rain can only extinguish normal fires, but Red Boy's fire is inextinguishable to normal efforts to quench fire) with the rain in fact intensifying the flames. Caught directly by the flames, Sun Wukong is ultimately almost burned to death by the flames and he finally resorts to asking for the help of the Bodhisattva Guanyin.

    Wiki sources the events to chapter 43, which does more referencing than your website. 


    Seriously, have you actually read some version of Journey to the West? When you stated that he most "probably" lifts a mountain in every book that already rang alarm bells. 


  • edited September 2018
    Superman. He is the man of Steel. So he is only as hard as steel. Lets try another one. Dictator Joseph Stalin was also the man of steel (Stalin translates from Russian to man of steel). Therefore he must have a body as hard as steel right?
    This has nothing to do with the topic but a Stalin vs. Superman movie would be lit.
  • I wrote a long @śš paragraph discussing about the issue above... To sum it all up. There are characters like Meng Hao and Ji Ning that'll outhax Sun Wukong since strength isn't going to cut it.
  • My long @$$ paragraph got deleted/removed for some unknown reason... Great website amirite... I just made this account just now to reply to this thread. It mentioned a ton of stuff including in-depth details to the thread, and about the flaws of both characters. I mainly focused on Sun Wukong because the writing and reasoning for the story (Journey to the West) made no fu*king sense... What a shame that my paragraph went to waste... My point is that this thread is pointless since the Monkey King gets outhaxs. Also, it said defeat it kill so Sun Wukong doesn't matter since it won't help him when he gets incapacitated...
  • Yun Che. I can't figure out any other name. But before you find my comment rubbish, please hear this. I'm talkin bout the prime Yun Che or at the end of the novel version of him. Why ? Let me make this clear. He'll be immortal because he has the primordial seal of life and death, he'll travel the space and surpass any distance in a matter of seconds or a mere thought. Why ? Because he has the Ni Xuan's indestructible profound vein and he'll become the true god at the end of the series as we all already know. He'll also become the devil god hence controlling the law of darkness and use it at his own whim. He also have the law of light and will achieve it to the extent eventually and it's also a life profound aura that gives birth to life. Most importantly, he'll have law of nothingness that's the most frightening ability to devour everything. Not just this, law of nothingness has the control over time and everything too as mentioned by Ancestral God. So he'll be omnipotent. Btw it's a theory. Feel free to contradict me
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