Meng Clan is on decline but there are so many Dao realm cultivators?

Why is it Meng clan are in decline but has so many Dao realm cultivators where as Fang clan was not in decline, not being suppressed and has even a planet of their own but only 2 Dao realm cultivator plus the first patriarch (excluding meng hao and 1st patriarch's son coz he ran away)? Am I missing something?
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  • edited February 2017
    LusoSeth said:
    Actually the Meng Clan has 5 Dao Realm Patriarchs as told in Chapter 1254, and one thing to have in consideration is that up to about when Meng Hao was born the Meng Clan Patriarch was known to be the Lord of the 8th Mountain And Sea for who knows how long, which counts for a strong foundation since it was only 500 years ago that they started to decline.
    As for the Han Clan  it should have roughly the same strength level or at most a bit stronger than the Meng Clan, after all given the hate both clans seem to have for one another had the Han Clan been much stronger than the Meng it would have destroyed it already.
    Also Daoist "The Dao is in my Heart" is not from a Clan but from the Righteous Noble Sect which as you said is one of the most powerful in the Heavengod Alliance and is the Sovereign of one of the 4 Planets in the 8th Mountain and Sea, and even then at most it has about 4-5 Dao Realm Cultivators,
    Finally most of the powers you're mentioning aren't even Clans, the Heavengod Alliance for instance is a mixture of Sects and Clans, the 3 Societies are Ancient powers that collect some of the greatest talents in the Mountain and Sea Realm and nurture them, they are always counted above all the other powers in the Realm.
    So yeah although the Fang might have been considered among the weakest 1st rank Clans in the entire Mountain and Sea Realm i think they should still be counted as one. Besides i don't think even a 4 Essence Dao Realm could do what the Fang Patriarch did in Chapter 1187 when he interfered with the will of the Mountain and Sea Realm and it's Lords and also injured Ji Tian and possibly the other 8 Lords as well.
    For me, Clan/Sect/etc is just a name. We're talking about independent/semi-independent powers here and Fang Clan doesnt count as a first-rate one.

    The only reason Fang Patriarch could interfere with 9M&S will is because his soul is fused with planet East Victory, which is a significant part of the 9thM&S.

    Injure all M&S Lords? Are you kidding now?
    Ji Tian is the weakest Lord, he only has 4 Essences, the rest have 5 or 6.

    You are overhyping the Fangs far too much.

    As for the Righteous Noble Sect, the Priest is not even the leader and he's a 3 Essence Dao Lord that can easily block dozens other Dao Realms (of his Essence level nonetheless), due to his ability. The Patriarch of that sect is a 4 Essence Dao-Sovereign and we know for sure of 2 other Dao Realms. That seems far stronger than Fang Clan, in fact, even stronger than the Mengs.
  • edited February 2017
    LusoSeth said:
    Actually the Meng Clan has 5 Dao Realm Patriarchs as told in Chapter 1254, and one thing to have in consideration is that up to about when Meng Hao was born the Meng Clan Patriarch was known to be the Lord of the 8th Mountain And Sea for who knows how long, which counts for a strong foundation since it was only 500 years ago that they started to decline.
    As for the Han Clan  it should have roughly the same strength level or at most a bit stronger than the Meng Clan, after all given the hate both clans seem to have for one another had the Han Clan been much stronger than the Meng it would have destroyed it already.
    Also Daoist "The Dao is in my Heart" is not from a Clan but from the Righteous Noble Sect which as you said is one of the most powerful in the Heavengod Alliance and is the Sovereign of one of the 4 Planets in the 8th Mountain and Sea, and even then at most it has about 4-5 Dao Realm Cultivators,
    Finally most of the powers you're mentioning aren't even Clans, the Heavengod Alliance for instance is a mixture of Sects and Clans, the 3 Societies are Ancient powers that collect some of the greatest talents in the Mountain and Sea Realm and nurture them, they are always counted above all the other powers in the Realm.
    So yeah although the Fang might have been considered among the weakest 1st rank Clans in the entire Mountain and Sea Realm i think they should still be counted as one. Besides i don't think even a 4 Essence Dao Realm could do what the Fang Patriarch did in Chapter 1187 when he interfered with the will of the Mountain and Sea Realm and it's Lords and also injured Ji Tian and possibly the other 8 Lords as well.
    For me, Clan/Sect/etc is just a name. We're talking about independent/semi-independent powers here and Fang Clan doesnt count as a first-rate one.

    The only reason Fang Patriarch could interfere with 9M&S will is because his soul is fused with planet East Victory, which is a significant part of the 9thM&S.

    Injure all M&S Lords? Are you kidding now?
    Ji Tian is the weakest Lord, he only has 4 Essences, the rest have 5 or 6.

    You are overhyping the Fangs far too much.

    As for the Righteous Noble Sect, the Priest is not even the leader and he's a 3 Essence Dao Lord that can easily block dozens other Dao Realms (of his Essence level nonetheless), due to his ability. The Patriarch of that sect is a 4 Essence Dao-Sovereign and we know for sure of 2 other Dao Realms. That seems far stronger than Fang Clan, in fact, even stronger than the Mengs.
  • Why is it Meng clan are in decline but has so many Dao realm cultivators where as Fang clan was not in decline, not being suppressed and has even a planet of their own but only 2 Dao realm cultivator plus the first patriarch (excluding meng hao and 1st patriarch's son coz he ran away)? Am I missing something?
    You realize that being in decline is relative to their past state ? so it means at some point Meng Clan is even stronger than their current state. Also, a little correction Fang Clan is also in decline before MH show up (to be exact, the whole 9 M&S is in decline) and currently try to rise again.
  • hmmm I guess that would be correct.
  • Don't forget there was a CIVIL WAR in the ninth montain that makes the ancient demon sect (forget the name) colapse and the ninth montain as the whole weaker than other montain
  • majority of the dao realm experts died in the civil war. 
  • the ninth mountain got screwed over because of the ji clans greed and lust for power the other mountains are more unified and are stronger by comparison any other M&S and the fang clan would be a low tier clan with so little dao realm cultivators not to mention they are only 1/2 essence realm where as the other mountains main clans have 4/5 essence dao lords even the near crippled meng clan is stronger than the fang clan
  • if a clan has dao relam expert it can't be low tier or even mid tier, plus meng hao's father is as strong as a dao lord so they would be a high tier clan in the top 10 but not top 5 i think

  • miyosafi said:
    if a clan has dao relam expert it can't be low tier or even mid tier, plus meng hao's father is as strong as a dao lord so they would be a high tier clan in the top 10 but not top 5 i think

    it's a question of quantity and quality the eighth M&S has numerous dao lords with 3/4 essences the ji clan almost over threw the fang clan with 2 single essence dao realm just because you have dao realm people doesn't make you first rate clan if all the first rate clans have multiple dao lords each with multiple essences then a clan with only single essence dao lords will be second tier the only reason the fang clan survived is because of the first patriarch who was at least 4 essence (plant and vegetation, death, life and time) in order to be a first rate clan you need quantity and quality the fang clan has 3 1/2 essence dao lords they are second rate at best compared to the eighth M&S several clans with 4 essence dao lords
  • fang first patriarch was 3 essence i think
  • edited February 2017
    Garnest said:
    fang first patriarch was 3 essence i think
    hard to tell only essences we saw were plant and vegetation and reincarnation i personally am counting plant and vegetation as 1 and reincarnation as a fusion of life, death and time but thats me.
  • miyosafi said:
    if a clan has dao relam expert it can't be low tier or even mid tier, plus meng hao's father is as strong as a dao lord so they would be a high tier clan in the top 10 but not top 5 i think

    it's a question of quantity and quality the eighth M&S has numerous dao lords with 3/4 essences the ji clan almost over threw the fang clan with 2 single essence dao realm just because you have dao realm people doesn't make you first rate clan if all the first rate clans have multiple dao lords each with multiple essences then a clan with only single essence dao lords will be second tier the only reason the fang clan survived is because of the first patriarch who was at least 4 essence (plant and vegetation, death, life and time) in order to be a first rate clan you need quantity and quality the fang clan has 3 1/2 essence dao lords they are second rate at best compared to the eighth M&S several clans with 4 essence dao lords
    do you think dao realam expert are everywhere, at best in the M&S there are a 100, any clan with a dao realam expert it considerd a powerful clan it was stated and if you have a dao lord or equivalent and other dao realam expert you are a first rate clan, the fang clan has a dao lord equivalent, they have fang shoudao that is most likely dao lord or peek 2-essences as you can see from his achivements,and you have the other one, and the clone of the fang clan patriach, the fang clan in any mountain and see would be considered a first rate clan, even the Ji clan could not take them down with so many years of preparation, and now they even have meng hao a 5 essences dao souvering equivalent
  • miyosafi said:
    miyosafi said:
    if a clan has dao relam expert it can't be low tier or even mid tier, plus meng hao's father is as strong as a dao lord so they would be a high tier clan in the top 10 but not top 5 i think

    it's a question of quantity and quality the eighth M&S has numerous dao lords with 3/4 essences the ji clan almost over threw the fang clan with 2 single essence dao realm just because you have dao realm people doesn't make you first rate clan if all the first rate clans have multiple dao lords each with multiple essences then a clan with only single essence dao lords will be second tier the only reason the fang clan survived is because of the first patriarch who was at least 4 essence (plant and vegetation, death, life and time) in order to be a first rate clan you need quantity and quality the fang clan has 3 1/2 essence dao lords they are second rate at best compared to the eighth M&S several clans with 4 essence dao lords
    do you think dao realam expert are everywhere, at best in the M&S there are a 100, any clan with a dao realam expert it considerd a powerful clan it was stated and if you have a dao lord or equivalent and other dao realam expert you are a first rate clan, the fang clan has a dao lord equivalent, they have fang shoudao that is most likely dao lord or peek 2-essences as you can see from his achivements,and you have the other one, and the clone of the fang clan patriach, the fang clan in any mountain and see would be considered a first rate clan, even the Ji clan could not take them down with so many years of preparation, and now they even have meng hao a 5 essences dao souvering equivalent
    once again just because a clan has a dao realm expert doesn't automatically make them a first rate clan. first rate clans need power, influence and territory having a dao realm expert gives the clan some power but if they are weaker than other clans experts then that affects their influence which in turn affects there ability to expand their territory lacking in any of these affects whether the clan is first rate, second rate or lower.

    Following your logic if having a dao realm expert automatically makes you a first rate clan then what is the requirements for a second rate clan quasi-dao realm experts? No if a weak clan somehow raises a dao realm expert they don't automatically become first rate a weak clan with a weak (1/2 essence) dao realm expert will have a weak standing and compared to the meng clan which is in decline to the point of being considered second rate the fang clan is considerably worse as such in the eighth M&S the fang clan would be second rate at best.

    to put a fine point to it the only reason the fang clan survived the ji clans attack was because the first patriarch a 4 essence dao lord step up and completely dominated the battle field the meng clan currently has 2 experts at this level as such if the meng clan attacked the fang clan the meng clan would win and since the meng clan is on the verge of being considered a second rate clan then the fang clan must be considered second rate at best.
  • The Fang before Meng Hao should be considered a 1st Rank Clan, they had 4-5 patriarchs all at the peak of Ancient Realm, a Quasi.Dao Cultivator, then Fang Yanxu which is at 1 or 2 Dao Source, Fang Shoudao which is a 2-3 Source Dao Realm and finally the Fang Patriarch which is probably at 4 Dao Source, that's more than enough i think since until now the only clans we've seen that can compare are the Ji and the Meng and probably the Han, that's 3 Clans that could fight the Fang in all of 2 Mountains and Seas.
  • edited February 2017
    LusoSeth said:
    The Fang before Meng Hao should be considered a 1st Rank Clan, they had 4-5 patriarchs all at the peak of Ancient Realm, a Quasi.Dao Cultivator, then Fang Yanxu which is at 1 or 2 Dao Source, Fang Shoudao which is a 2-3 Source Dao Realm and finally the Fang Patriarch which is probably at 4 Dao Source, that's more than enough i think since until now the only clans we've seen that can compare are the Ji and the Meng and probably the Han, that's 3 Clans that could fight the Fang in all of 2 Mountains and Seas.
    Fang Yanxu and Fang Shoudao are both 1 or 2 Dao Essence level.
    The Fang Patriarch is at 3 Dao Essence, he's "just" a Dao Lord.
    Then they have a quasi dao or 2, as the statue "might" have helped in case of war, after all it had its own consciousness.
    The 5 great circle patriarchs are logically equivalent to 5 more quasi dao(if they all fail tribulation that is)
    Add MH's father (who was stuck at SH), with Quasi-Dao power (should've been easy for him to power up to 1 Dao Essence if not on SH in matter of minutes.)

    Overall, that is potentially: 2x 1-2 Essences, 1x Dao Lord(3 Essences), Seven to Eight Quasi-Dao equivalents.

    The Clan of Daoist "The Dao is in my Heart" was one of the top 5 within Heavengod Alliance and it had a 4 Essence Patriarch (meaning Dao Sovereign), as well as a few others. Meng Clan has Nine Dao Realms, two(?) of which are 3 Essence.Han are described as stronger so probably more.

    That means that there are (at minimum) seven clans who have a 4 Essence Patriarch or more than a handful of normal Dao Realms.
    We are not counting Great Circle Ancients because each clan has plenty of those, definitely more than the Fangs.

    Fang Clan is only slightly stronger than Blacksoul Society was (which had a single 3 Dao Essence and was considered a decently strong second rate clan,outside of Heavengod Alliance top 10).

    Going by this, no matter how you look at it, Fang clan is not first rate at all and would probably rank around 20th place within the 8th M&S (Heavengod Alliance top 10 are all stronger, 3 Societies too, as are Meng and Han, which means 16th place at best)

    In all honesty, from all of 9thM&S only Ji clan has the capability to rank within the top 5 if placed in 8th M&S and that too is only because of Ji Tian.

    By the way, its kind of neat how MC's homeland is the weakest of the nine.

    Each of the Three Societies probably has around 8 Dao Realms(at least 9th Sea God World did). If we generously assume the Ji Clan to be the same, and that each of the Six Churches have a single Dao Realm, add Fang Clan's 2 on top of that, then that means a total of 40 Dao Realms in the whole 9th M&S.

    8th M&S on the contrary, has :
    -Heavengod Top 10 Clans with more than five Dao Realms each(assume average of 8) = 80
    -Three Societies, 8 each = 24
    -Meng and Han Clans (lets assume 18 in total if the Han dont live up to the hype of "rising power")
    -the rest of Top 20 clans should each have an average of 2 Dao Realms too and Top 30 should have one each(weak estimate...) = 30

    Thats 152 in total at the bare minimum i.e more than for times more than the 9th Mountain.
  • Actually the Meng Clan has 5 Dao Realm Patriarchs as told in Chapter 1254, and one thing to have in consideration is that up to about when Meng Hao was born the Meng Clan Patriarch was known to be the Lord of the 8th Mountain And Sea for who knows how long, which counts for a strong foundation since it was only 500 years ago that they started to decline.
    As for the Han Clan  it should have roughly the same strength level or at most a bit stronger than the Meng Clan, after all given the hate both clans seem to have for one another had the Han Clan been much stronger than the Meng it would have destroyed it already.
    Also Daoist "The Dao is in my Heart" is not from a Clan but from the Righteous Noble Sect which as you said is one of the most powerful in the Heavengod Alliance and is the Sovereign of one of the 4 Planets in the 8th Mountain and Sea, and even then at most it has about 4-5 Dao Realm Cultivators,
    Finally most of the powers you're mentioning aren't even Clans, the Heavengod Alliance for instance is a mixture of Sects and Clans, the 3 Societies are Ancient powers that collect some of the greatest talents in the Mountain and Sea Realm and nurture them, they are always counted above all the other powers in the Realm.
    So yeah although the Fang might have been considered among the weakest 1st rank Clans in the entire Mountain and Sea Realm i think they should still be counted as one. Besides i don't think even a 4 Essence Dao Realm could do what the Fang Patriarch did in Chapter 1187 when he interfered with the will of the Mountain and Sea Realm and it's Lords and also injured Ji Tian and possibly the other 8 Lords as well.
  • how can you still be calling the fang clan a first rate clan when there are second rate clans stronger than them you can't be first if second is better than you. the fang clan is first rate in the ninth mountain only in the eighth mountain they would be classed as second rate clan maybe even third simply because of how few and weak their dao realm experts are comparatively.
  • edited February 2017
    LusoSeth said:
    Actually the Meng Clan has 5 Dao Realm Patriarchs as told in Chapter 1254, and one thing to have in consideration is that up to about when Meng Hao was born the Meng Clan Patriarch was known to be the Lord of the 8th Mountain And Sea for who knows how long, which counts for a strong foundation since it was only 500 years ago that they started to decline.
    As for the Han Clan  it should have roughly the same strength level or at most a bit stronger than the Meng Clan, after all given the hate both clans seem to have for one another had the Han Clan been much stronger than the Meng it would have destroyed it already.
    Also Daoist "The Dao is in my Heart" is not from a Clan but from the Righteous Noble Sect which as you said is one of the most powerful in the Heavengod Alliance and is the Sovereign of one of the 4 Planets in the 8th Mountain and Sea, and even then at most it has about 4-5 Dao Realm Cultivators,
    Finally most of the powers you're mentioning aren't even Clans, the Heavengod Alliance for instance is a mixture of Sects and Clans, the 3 Societies are Ancient powers that collect some of the greatest talents in the Mountain and Sea Realm and nurture them, they are always counted above all the other powers in the Realm.
    So yeah although the Fang might have been considered among the weakest 1st rank Clans in the entire Mountain and Sea Realm i think they should still be counted as one. Besides i don't think even a 4 Essence Dao Realm could do what the Fang Patriarch did in Chapter 1187 when he interfered with the will of the Mountain and Sea Realm and it's Lords and also injured Ji Tian and possibly the other 8 Lords as well.
    For me, Clan/Sect/etc is just a name. We're talking about independent/semi-independent powers here and Fang Clan doesnt count as a first-rate one.

    The only reason Fang Patriarch could interfere with 9M&S will is because his soul is fused with planet East Victory, which is a significant part of the 9thM&S.

    Injure all M&S Lords? Are you kidding now?
    Ji Tian is the weakest Lord, he only has 4 Essences, the rest have 5 or 6.

    You are overhyping them far too much.

    As for the Righteous Noble Sect, the Priest is not even the leader and he's a 3 Essence Dao Lord that can easily block dozens other Dao Realms (of his Essence level nonetheless), due to his ability. The Patriarch of that sect is a 4 Essence Dao-Sovereign and we know for sure of 2 other Dao Realms. That seems far stronger than Fang Clan, in fact, even stronger than the Mengs (which have 5 Dao Realms, yeah, you are right, my bad)
  • how can you still be calling the fang clan a first rate clan when there are second rate clans stronger than them you can't be first if second is better than you. the fang clan is first rate in the ninth mountain only in the eighth mountain they would be classed as second rate clan maybe even third simply because of how few and weak their dao realm experts are comparatively.
    which second rate clan is better than the fang clan? let me take this again.

    1) if you have a dao realm expert in the clan you are pretty much considered a first rate clan a force to be acknowledge, because a doa realm expert can destroy a clan that doesn't have a dao realm expert with no problem (in a normal situation.), you seem to forget that in the entire mountain and sea realm there are only a 100 or so dao realm expert! so tell me how many clans in the entire mountain and sea can have dao realm expert?  Even people in the great circle of the ancient realm that can break through dao realam are feard, for example guru heaven cloud.

    2) first rate doesn't mean best, the MSR with so many clans, so a first rate clan is in the top 100 or top 50 and we know that there are a little over a 100 Dao realm and that in MSR even a 1 essence Dao expert is considered the peak, the Fang is definetly in the top 50

    3) it was said many times that a force comoposed of only Ancient realm expert could still easily do what ever they liked as long as they didn't run into a dao realm expert. It was said when the invaders attack the meng ship, when they where talking about grandma meng, and other occasion before.

    4) if the fang clan is second rate, so is the Ji clan. the fang clan even without meng hao would have defeated the Ji clan attack,  they have a 4 essence patriarch even if he is restricted to his planet it's still a intimidating, they have 2 dao realm expert cultivation base unknown but it's likely that since shoudao made a break through once when meng hao had a power up that he became a dao lord if not he is definetly a 2 essence because in the ji clan attack he was handeling the other Dao expert as if she was no threat to him, and the other dao expert is either 2 essence or 1 essence, and with only this strenght they defeated the ji showing that if the ji a ( first rate clan) attacked with full force they might have won but would have sufferd greatly and might have lost most of their dao realm expert. Now they have meng hao's father, a Dao lord equivalent and meng hao himself, putting them at a higher level than the Ji, and you are still saying they are second rate?

    5) a second rate clan doesn't have dao realm expert but theur best expert is late ancient realm or great circle for the best of second rate clan, and a 3erd rate clan is composed of immortals.

    I think all of you are forgeting the power scaling in the novel and looking down on dao lord and dao realm in general, because meng hao can sweep through them doesn't mean they are weak, they are the peak of the MSR any of them!

    plus the fang clan before would have fought the mang clan to a stalement if they fought on planet east victory because the fang clan patriach is 4 essence and the best meng clan is still learning his 4th essence so he is only half way ther, and we know for a fact that between the real deal and half way there is a huge diffrence! but if they fought outside of planet east victory the fang would have lost but the meng would have suffered great casualtys!

    you can judge a clan like this: if they fight would it be one sided or would the two clan suffer a lot? of it's not one sided then ther are ine the same categorie 

    sorry about the grammar and all the english mistakes.
  • miyosafi said:
    how can you still be calling the fang clan a first rate clan when there are second rate clans stronger than them you can't be first if second is better than you. the fang clan is first rate in the ninth mountain only in the eighth mountain they would be classed as second rate clan maybe even third simply because of how few and weak their dao realm experts are comparatively.
    which second rate clan is better than the fang clan? let me take this again.

    1) if you have a dao realm expert in the clan you are pretty much considered a first rate clan a force to be acknowledge, because a doa realm expert can destroy a clan that doesn't have a dao realm expert with no problem (in a normal situation.), you seem to forget that in the entire mountain and sea realm there are only a 100 or so dao realm expert! so tell me how many clans in the entire mountain and sea can have dao realm expert?  Even people in the great circle of the ancient realm that can break through dao realam are feard, for example guru heaven cloud.

    2) first rate doesn't mean best, the MSR with so many clans, so a first rate clan is in the top 100 or top 50 and we know that there are a little over a 100 Dao realm and that in MSR even a 1 essence Dao expert is considered the peak, the Fang is definetly in the top 50

    3) it was said many times that a force comoposed of only Ancient realm expert could still easily do what ever they liked as long as they didn't run into a dao realm expert. It was said when the invaders attack the meng ship, when they where talking about grandma meng, and other occasion before.

    4) if the fang clan is second rate, so is the Ji clan. the fang clan even without meng hao would have defeated the Ji clan attack,  they have a 4 essence patriarch even if he is restricted to his planet it's still a intimidating, they have 2 dao realm expert cultivation base unknown but it's likely that since shoudao made a break through once when meng hao had a power up that he became a dao lord if not he is definetly a 2 essence because in the ji clan attack he was handeling the other Dao expert as if she was no threat to him, and the other dao expert is either 2 essence or 1 essence, and with only this strenght they defeated the ji showing that if the ji a ( first rate clan) attacked with full force they might have won but would have sufferd greatly and might have lost most of their dao realm expert. Now they have meng hao's father, a Dao lord equivalent and meng hao himself, putting them at a higher level than the Ji, and you are still saying they are second rate?

    5) a second rate clan doesn't have dao realm expert but theur best expert is late ancient realm or great circle for the best of second rate clan, and a 3erd rate clan is composed of immortals.

    I think all of you are forgeting the power scaling in the novel and looking down on dao lord and dao realm in general, because meng hao can sweep through them doesn't mean they are weak, they are the peak of the MSR any of them!

    plus the fang clan before would have fought the mang clan to a stalement if they fought on planet east victory because the fang clan patriach is 4 essence and the best meng clan is still learning his 4th essence so he is only half way ther, and we know for a fact that between the real deal and half way there is a huge diffrence! but if they fought outside of planet east victory the fang would have lost but the meng would have suffered great casualtys!

    you can judge a clan like this: if they fight would it be one sided or would the two clan suffer a lot? of it's not one sided then ther are ine the same categorie 

    sorry about the grammar and all the english mistakes.
    1. the black soul society was a second rate clan and they were stronger than the fang clan and they had a 3 essence dao lord as a patriarch so no having a dao realm expert doesn't make you a first rate clan
    2. first rate does mean best thats' why they are first rate
    3. that is true for any level of power dao seeking could do anything unless they met an immortal, spirit severing could do anything unless they meet dao seeking and so on, dao realm is the current peak but we know there is a level above that.
    4. yes the fang clan is second rate and by extension so is the ji clan the entire ninth mountain is second rate because of the civil war caused by the ji clan
    5. just plain wrong here the black soul society was a second rate clan and they had a dao lord.

    you are forgetting the power scaling throughout the entire story meng hao started in the weakest sect from the weakest continent on the weakest planet in the weakest mountain and sea, he was constantly been coming from weakness becoming the strongest then going to the next strongest.

    the fang clan would have lost to the meng clan even if they did fight on planet east victory because the fang clan has 1 dao lord and that the planet itself the meng clan has 3 outside of planet east victory it's no contest the meng clans win besides the planet itself can only act once before having to go into a long recovery period so you can't really include the patriarch in the equation even now if the ji clan was to attack again it would be no contest.
  • 1. blacksoul was far from second rate clan, proof of that is that even the first rate clans repected them, and hey were not stronger than the fang clan at all.
    2. first rate disigne a clan that very few other can defeat, one that in any mountain and sea would have weight and would be recongnized a a huge asset, knowing the lent people were ready go to for blaksoul shows just how a dao realm expert means in the mountain and sea, even a rouge dao realm would be able to exterminate any second rate clan. a second rate clan is one that is average or barly better than average, tell me is that the case of the fang clan?
    3. yes but there is no higher level than dao realm in the MSR even 9 seal didn't reach that level so dao realm is still the peak.
    4. A second rate clan is one that is average or barly better than average, tell me is that the case of the fang clan? if you think that all first rate clans must have a dao souvering or be at the same level you are highky mistaken
    5. they were no second rate clan, it was said that they were feard by everybody because of the way they cultivate and cruelty and the fact that they had a dao lord as patriach ensured they were respected, its not because meng hao soloed them that they are second rate, how many clans or even sect could  accomplish what meng hao did? not even 50 it the whole MSR that has more than a million of clan and sect and you are calling that a second rate clan

    even though they are the weakest M&S the best clans they have there are still first rate just like how every stage is subdivided there are stronger clans and weaker clans in the first rate categorie, but none is to be taken lightly 

    the fang clan patriach would aweken when needed, he awoke after the bettle to attack the mountain and sea lords that tried to kill meng haos father so he is in the equation and could kill any cultivator the meng clan has.

    if the Ji attacked now they would lose because of the clan chief being in south heaven.
  • If you're saying that the Ji Clan isn't 1st rate then i'm at a loss to what you consider as 1st Rate factions. The Ji Clan had 5 Dao Realm Patriarchs plus the 4 Essence Ji Tian who is also the Mountain Lord of the 9th Mountain (in case you are not aware a Mountain and Sea Lord is much stronger than a normal cultivator due to being able to use the power of the Mountain and Sea Realm). If you only count a faction that has a 5 Essence Cultivator as being !st rate then there are almost none of them in the Mountain and Sea Realm as a whole.
    We learn in Chapter 1278 that there are only 4 Cultivators in the 6 Essence Realm, the Lord of the 4th Mountain and the 3 Doyens that were entrusted with the Scriptures and in essence aren't a part of any faction. We also learn that there are less than 15 Cultivators in the 5 Essence Realm, with 7 of them being Mountain Lords, from the others we know that one follows the 7th Lord and another follows the 8th Lord, in other words they are as rare as Phoenix’s feathers and Qilin’s horns. Now by that assessment any faction that possesses a 4 Essence Patriarch or equivalent is downright frightening and should be considered top tier due to being so very few that could actually kill or even fight such a cultivator. I think we can all agree to this yes?

    Now during the Fang Rebellion the Ji Clan joined the rebel faction with 4 Dao Realm Patriarchs and 3 Quasi-Dao Cultivators, furthermore the 1st Patriarch son Fang Daozi, which was a 3 Essence Dao Lord (and strong ones at that) as shown in chapter 1002 was the leader of the rebellion. The result of all  that was? Defeat. The 1st Patriarch erased the power of Fang Daozi pretty damn easily (would have killed him too had he not been his son), he then destroyed a shield generated by 3 Dao Realm Patriarchs and continued on to kill a Dao Realm Expert with his killing intent alone. The other 3 were also fleeing for their lives and had Ji Tian not interfered they would have also died easily, further the 1st Patriarch said to Ji Tian and i quote "I might not be able to seal the Heavens, but I can shatter the Heavens of the Ninth Mountain and Sea,". Meaning both their power levels are pretty damn close. The Fang then also have 2 other Dao Realm Patriarchs, a Quasi-Dao Patriarch, and 8-9 Peak ancient Realm Patriarchs. knowing all these facts you still think the Fang was not 1st rate before Meng Hao?


  • LusoSeth said:
    If you're saying that the Ji Clan isn't 1st rate then i'm at a loss to what you consider as 1st Rate factions. The Ji Clan had 5 Dao Realm Patriarchs plus the 4 Essence Ji Tian who is also the Mountain Lord of the 9th Mountain (in case you are not aware a Mountain and Sea Lord is much stronger than a normal cultivator due to being able to use the power of the Mountain and Sea Realm). If you only count a faction that has a 5 Essence Cultivator as being !st rate then there are almost none of them in the Mountain and Sea Realm as a whole.
    We learn in Chapter 1278 that there are only 4 Cultivators in the 6 Essence Realm, the Lord of the 4th Mountain and the 3 Doyens that were entrusted with the Scriptures and in essence aren't a part of any faction. We also learn that there are less than 15 Cultivators in the 5 Essence Realm, with 7 of them being Mountain Lords, from the others we know that one follows the 7th Lord and another follows the 8th Lord, in other words they are as rare as Phoenix’s feathers and Qilin’s horns. Now by that assessment any faction that possesses a 4 Essence Patriarch or equivalent is downright frightening and should be considered top tier due to being so very few that could actually kill or even fight such a cultivator. I think we can all agree to this yes?

    Now during the Fang Rebellion the Ji Clan joined the rebel faction with 4 Dao Realm Patriarchs and 3 Quasi-Dao Cultivators, furthermore the 1st Patriarch son Fang Daozi, which was a 3 Essence Dao Lord (and strong ones at that) as shown in chapter 1002 was the leader of the rebellion. The result of all  that was? Defeat. The 1st Patriarch erased the power of Fang Daozi pretty damn easily (would have killed him too had he not been his son), he then destroyed a shield generated by 3 Dao Realm Patriarchs and continued on to kill a Dao Realm Expert with his killing intent alone. The other 3 were also fleeing for their lives and had Ji Tian not interfered they would have also died easily, further the 1st Patriarch said to Ji Tian and i quote "I might not be able to seal the Heavens, but I can shatter the Heavens of the Ninth Mountain and Sea,". Meaning both their power levels are pretty damn close. The Fang then also have 2 other Dao Realm Patriarchs, a Quasi-Dao Patriarch, and 8-9 Peak ancient Realm Patriarchs. knowing all these facts you still think the Fang was not 1st rate before Meng Hao?


    Fang Patriarch's words were a bluff...he used up like half of planet East Victory's energy to do that what you called "killing intent attack". Had Ji Tian attacked the Fang clan wouldn't stand a chance.

    So Fang Clan has, what, two 1-2 Essences Dao Realms and a dormant Dao Lord that is bound to a planet and can only use at most a few charges of 4 Essences level power? Thats not first rate.

    A first rate power needs a 4 Essences as the patriarch and a few other ordinary (1-3 Essences) Dao Realms.

    Ji Clan is a first rate power, you have to be mentally handicapped to say that a faction that has a Mountain Lord isn't first rate, even if he is the weakest of the bunch.
    But...Heavengod Alliance's top 5 powers each wield comparable power to the Ji Clan (Righteous Noble Sect is an example of that, at least 4 confirmed Dao Realms, 1 of which is 4 Essences like Ji Tian and 1 is the Priest who has a technique that allows him to fight 4 Essences too...and they arent even the strongest out of the five)

    Honestly speaking, if each mountain other than the 9th is as strong as the 8th (seems to be the case as 7th appears to be stronger than 8th), then that means at the bare minimum:

    Nine Mountain Lord Clans
    27x Three Societies which are first rate, as even the 9th Mountain's has 8? Dao Realms (3x9)
    Top 10 Clans of eight mountains -> 80 more.

    Thats 116 Powers already that are comparable to or stronger than the Ji Clan.

    Fangs are probably like, in the top 250 overall...hardly first rate.

  • edited February 2017
    miyosafi said:
    1. blacksoul was far from second rate clan, proof of that is that even the first rate clans repected them, and hey were not stronger than the fang clan at all.
    2. first rate disigne a clan that very few other can defeat, one that in any mountain and sea would have weight and would be recongnized a a huge asset, knowing the lent people were ready go to for blaksoul shows just how a dao realm expert means in the mountain and sea, even a rouge dao realm would be able to exterminate any second rate clan. a second rate clan is one that is average or barly better than average, tell me is that the case of the fang clan?
    3. yes but there is no higher level than dao realm in the MSR even 9 seal didn't reach that level so dao realm is still the peak.
    4. A second rate clan is one that is average or barly better than average, tell me is that the case of the fang clan? if you think that all first rate clans must have a dao souvering or be at the same level you are highky mistaken
    5. they were no second rate clan, it was said that they were feard by everybody because of the way they cultivate and cruelty and the fact that they had a dao lord as patriach ensured they were respected, its not because meng hao soloed them that they are second rate, how many clans or even sect could  accomplish what meng hao did? not even 50 it the whole MSR that has more than a million of clan and sect and you are calling that a second rate clan

    even though they are the weakest M&S the best clans they have there are still first rate just like how every stage is subdivided there are stronger clans and weaker clans in the first rate categorie, but none is to be taken lightly 

    the fang clan patriach would aweken when needed, he awoke after the bettle to attack the mountain and sea lords that tried to kill meng haos father so he is in the equation and could kill any cultivator the meng clan has.

    if the Ji attacked now they would lose because of the clan chief being in south heaven.
    i think i see where your mistake is you think a second rate clan is only slightly better than average that is wrong a no rank clan is average then there is the third rate clans then the second rate and finally first rate.
    These ranking work on a pyramid system the higher you are on the pyramid the less people there is at your level as such average which can be found everywhere is at the bottom and the few elites are at the top. The fang clan being second rate doesn't make them average it just doesn't put them towards the top of the power hierarchy they are somewhere in the middle they lack the power to contend with the real powerful clans but have enough power and influence to put them above the no rank and third rate clans.
    you have to realize that dao realm experts don't make you first rate the system works like this
    average clans are everywhere the members ranging from anywhere in the spirit realm only top have immortals
    third rate has immortals and top some ancient realm
    second rate has ancient realm and top have some dao realm
    first rate has multiple dao realm 1 dao lord minimum and the top clans have multiple dao lords and up

    all of the fang clans dao realm experts are from the same generation they have no elder dao realm and the only one that can be considered junior is meng hao's dad and they have no dao lord the first patriarch doesn't count because he isn't constantly available to defend the clan he gets one big defence attack then goes dormant for a long time he is more like a super weapon with a long cooldown that put the fang clan at second rate when meng hao reaches dao lord status then they would be first rate but right now they are not
  • Ok first It was not a so called "killing intent attack" it was "truly" such an attack that he used to kill the 3 Quasi-Dao cultivators as well as the Dao Realm one. It was described in chapters 1004-1005, in fact it literally says so "Even an almighty Dao Realm expert couldn’t stand up to a single blow from the killing intent of the first generation Patriarch!"
    Secondly the 1st Patriarch didn't spend all that energy on the killing, but rather most of it was spent in bringing back all those that had died, an act we actually never saw being replicated so we can't know how much it would cost. The closest we got i think was in chapter 1210 when Meng Hao time walked  to a day before so he could momentarily visit Chu Yuyan before she died, and even that action cost Meng Hao so much that he literally grew older from performing it, and he had a cultivation realm comparable with a Dao Lord at that point.
    Regarding the Fang Patriarch words to Ji Tian they weren't really a bluff, as Meng Hao says “How come it seems like these two guys are playing chess? One of them knows he can’t outplay the other, but he still gives the impression that if he gets pissed off enough, he could just flip over the game board….” which is exactly what the patriarch meant, as you say Ji Tian could beat the Fang Patriarch, he actually says so himself in the chapter, so he knows, however he also knows that such an act would cost him immensely, which is why he allowed the 1st Patriarch to kill a Dao Realm expert of the Clan as well as accepting the barring of East Victory to the Ji as reparation to the Fang.

    Finally i don't know where you are getting your numbers, i mean in chapter 1230 it is stated that the entire Heavengod Alliance has only a few dozen Dao Realm Experts, so at most the entire alliance has about what? 30-40 such cultivators. And that's a force that controls all but 1 Planet in the entire 8th Mountain and Sea, with so many clans and sects that make up the alliance the 3 strongest factions within it are at most a little stronger than the Righteous Noble Sect with 4-5 Dao Realm cultivators

    Anyways i'm done with this topic, after all there isn't any official ranking or prerequisites for such a position so we truly can only speculate about it, and as such each will have a different opinion.
    This is mine, the Fang Clan is a faction that has a great number of ancient cultivators, about 8 or 9 peak Ancient ones, 3 Dao Realm Experts with one of them having power comparable to a 4 Essence Dao Realm Cultivator. In my opinion such a faction is a 1st Rate one, it is among the weakest 1st rate ones to be sure, but in the end it's still a powerhouse.
  • edited February 2017
    we aren't arbitrarily calling the fang clan weak for no reason. We are comparing it to other clans in other mountains it says in chapter 1278 in all of the 9M&S lord of the fourth mountain is a 6-essence dao sovereign the other mountain lords are 5 essence dao sovereigns except the ninth mountains who has only 4-essences. It also tells us that there is no more than 15 5-essence dao sovereigns in all 9 mountains excluding the 7 mountain lords that leaves 8 and there are none in the ninth and only the eighth mountain lord, the seventh mountain has 2 including the lord that leaves 7 5-essence sovereigns in the first through sixth mountains combined. This means that the other 8 mountains are all stronger than the ninth and since the other mountains have several experts equal to the ninth mountain lord this makes it impossible for a clan from the ninth mountain to become a first rate clan without at least having a dao lord and once again the first patriarch doesn't count because of the circumstances around him.
  • Congrats !!!
     RobtheHungry wins monthly reward for longest run-on sentence! Everyone cheer!!! B)
  • fixed it maybe punctuation isn't my strong suit.
  • look I will make a simple comparaison explaning my whole point, I why I think any clan with dao realm expert can be considered first rate. in south heavan the peak is dao seeking, and there are huge diffrences in the dao seeking from a weak early dao seeking to chosen level like meng hao and coe, but any sect with even just 1 dao seeking is considerd dirst rate in south heaven right? that's because they are super rare! as rare as a qilin horn and a pheonix feather ( including a chinese proverb in a sentence done :p) and dao realm expert are just as rare if not more than dao seeking cultivator on south heaven ( don't forget we are talking about % here) 
  • miyosafi said:
    look I will make a simple comparaison explaning my whole point, I why I think any clan with dao realm expert can be considered first rate. in south heavan the peak is dao seeking, and there are huge diffrences in the dao seeking from a weak early dao seeking to chosen level like meng hao and coe, but any sect with even just 1 dao seeking is considerd dirst rate in south heaven right? that's because they are super rare! as rare as a qilin horn and a pheonix feather ( including a chinese proverb in a sentence done :p) and dao realm expert are just as rare if not more than dao seeking cultivator on south heaven ( don't forget we are talking about % here) 
    while this is true there is a difference dao seeking only has 3 stages. a clans ranking changes depending on whether they have early, middle or late stage breaking into early dao seeking can make your clan low first tier but a major difference is that not only does dao realm have more stages each expert has a longer life span a late stage dao seeking is not likely to survive long enough for a new born to reach the same level as them selves but thats not the case for dao realm, several generations can be born and die before a dao realm expert begins to reach the end of their life. Combined that with the fact that dao realm experts aren't considered powerful experts in the dao realm until they become dao lords with 3 essences promoting a clan to first rate because they have a single dao realm expert isn't very practical if they don't produce another in that 1 experts long lifespan that's not a first tier clan that is a second tier clan with 1 powerful member compared to other second tier clans. first tier clans have first tier members in every generation if a clan can't produce more dao realm experts to replace the ones that die it's not first tier. that's also why the meng clan is in decline all of their dao realm experts are getting to old the moment they die the entire clan will lose all there power and likely be destroyed by their enemies.
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