Why the Harem Hate?

Why do some readers hate harem and decides to drop a novel when they discover that it's a harem? I prefer harem ending so that all heroines can be happy and not forgotten, unlike the novel ISSTH.
Made me sad that one of the girls connected to the mc just disappears because of rejection but don't know the ending yet so I'm not sure what happened to her.


So is your reason being just a simple polygamous, jealousy, religious, NGSB, or got a trauma in real life related to harem?

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Comments

  • Probably because women are treated like not-so glorified masturbation tools?
  • what strarkpyre said ^
    and to clarify : even though author tries to dodge it for example in TDG saying "Nie Li ( the protagonist) still has space for X girl in his heart"
    i still perceive them us tools
    but my main reason for hating harem is because the story and its logic gets bent so much in order for X girl to become a harem member.
    Like all harems, whether they come from manga, ln , wuxia or wherever at some point it goes like this : " oh he said hi to me....i wanna be with him forever".
  • Not really, Sometime you wish few were harem because of intense heartbreaks and depression it gives to rejected women,
    BTTH had harem of sorts and it didnt degrade single female in it , In MGA cf treats his women above his own life,HJC Zhou treats them well and some dont even have sex till like end.
    I personally havent seen any harem series with girls being used as masturbation tools. Even devouring the heavens which has like 11 + harem candidates by chap 500
  • I am a guy and I am OK with mc having multiple sex partners or cheating behind their lovers back because it happens daily in real world. But I don't like the idea of harem because it's simply not realistic according to the modern mindset we have grown up in. Idea of having multiple wives willingly living together sounds hogwash to me
  • edited July 2016
    Moral values, religion, jealousy, inability of thinking outside of the modern mindset -- it could be any of these, really, but to be honest, I think the #1 reason is the fact that there's justified prejudice against harems in the anime, manga and novel community. I dare blame that on the fact that stories involving harems are more than often written badly. Very rarely will you find a well-formed, legit harem. I think this stereotype originates from the demand of the ecchi fanbase of Japanese anime and manga -- I've watched and read a lot of their stuff, the harems they portray suck, badly. They're not only narrated poorly, but also don't lead to anywhere. Most harem animes for example feature only soft romance and never really lead to a serious relationship -- they stay in the "extremely shy MC running away from 5-6 fangirls; ecchi stuff happens every now to keep you watching but that's about it" phase for seasons on end; this is hard to describe, but I'm sure the people that have watched anime know what I'm talking about. Out of the hundreds upon hundreds of shows that I've watched, I can probably count the ones that feature good harems on only one hand -- and I'm actually a fan of the harem and romance genres. Same goes for Korean manhwa -- although there is a lot more seriousness there, the "phase" I described earlier always sticks around forever. In my opinion, from what I've seen and read, Chinese novels are by far the best when in it comes to portraying Asian-styled harems, and I believe that is the case because they are written much more seriously than their Japanese and Korean counterparts.
  • Because harems are not realistically portrayed in the novels at all. No girls ever even question or oppose the mc taking multiple wives. The idea that the wives can immediately become best friends/sisterly (see mga) is fking ridiculous and does not happen in real life at all. Oh and if you think historically, it's accurate think again. In our history, women weren't powerful and were not given rights and such which is why there were harems. In the novels, regardless of genders, the cultivators are powerful and i doubt anyone likes sharing their SO with others.

    I could understand if, lets take mga as an example, chu feng had multiple wives who were really weak cultivators and/or mortals. Ofc those girls would not mind sharing him cause they are weak af and chu feng is ridiculously powerful compared to them. This is not the case though. Why did zi ling never oppose him having multiple wives when she is pretty fking strong (or will be in future). There is absolutely no conflict between the 3 fiances of chu feng. I could say the same for atg or any other harem novels. 

    Oh and since there are many powerful female cultivators as well, how come we never see reverse harems? It's obvious that harems are only there so that more people will buy the authors' novels and/or so that authors can satisfy their fantasies.
    Understand basic grammar:
    Your vs You're
    There vs Their vs They're
    Defiantly vs Definitely
    Loose vs Lose
    Than vs Then
    To vs Too
    NO 'Should/Could of'

  • ^Cuz they love chu feng and dont want to be pain in ass for him? Zi ling was 3rd wife, if she couldn't survive with Su sisters she could GTFO because she came late.

    Reverse harem, maybe stop reading novels fixated at men audience and you will find plenty reverse harems if not more then harems.
    Don't categorize stuff based on what lil you have read in English. just like manga has female and male demographics based stuff, These novels have too.
    The stereotype hate that comes from Ecchi comedy harems shouldn't be used here
    1) Men aren't indecisive lil pieces of shit
    2) No cockblock every corner, they sex and all
    3) Love stories are written better then oh my, he picked my eraser up - I must give him my virginity as thanks.
  • chrish said:
    I am a guy and I am OK with mc having multiple sex partners or cheating behind their lovers back because it happens daily in real world. But I don't like the idea of harem because it's simply not realistic according to the modern mindset we have grown up in. Idea of having multiple wives willingly living together sounds hogwash to me
    Gulf countries or Islam in general. Tho they treat women like shit for most of part with less rights and can divorce them easily.
  • I like ISSTH for what it is, the tale of a con artist who cheats his way to the top.  Meng Hao just so happens to be a one woman type of person, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Sure you may dislike the other female characters besides Xu Qing getting the shorted out in the end, but life isn't fair.  If anything I'd complain that they didn't just move on like a normal woman would.

    In regards to disliking Harem, I'd say that it's to do with most people not being able to do it right.  Part of the reason I stopped watching anime is because most of the Harem MCs are beta pussies.  They are terrified at the prospect of a woman showing the slightest bit of interest toward them, and in the end come off as clueless twats.  It puts too much weight on the female being the one who initiates the relationship and the circumstances in the end are too unrealistic.
  • edited July 2016
    I don't mind harem if it's done well. However it's almost never done well. A lot of harems oversimplify relationships between characters in an attempt to meet a quota of sorts (gotta catch em all!). Instead of introducing readers to interesting narratives and developments between male and females, we get flooded with many diluted ones instead. It's a quantity vs quality argument here. Oftentimes this even gets in the way of the main plotlines because of how much space the 'harem' construction takes up.
  • Because Harems are rarely treated as anything besides sources of fan-service. 
  • I feel like these writers suck at writing romance so these harem subplots are just an annoying and terribly written distraction when they could be working to move the plot forward.
  • edited August 2016
    I would against harem in real life ,also I have only and one love interest ( my wife ) and it been 4 year..I had no eye for other.But what we are talking about is fiction and fantasy novel . U would say harem is not unrealstic and unmoral. of coz it is . So then , Cultivation , Reincarnation and other fancy stuffs in novels are realistic too ? Bloody not , why we enjoy this? we are tasting fancy in our leisure , I better not combine with my real life thing with my fantasy ... If Story is well written , harem is not pushy and cheap , heroines are all happy and has happy ending and not effect novel ..do we need to against harem ? .... 
  • for example : Mushoku Tensei 
     MC live happily with three wives and childrens ....they are all happy together ... He don't add girls cheaply too . has each CD with girls. 
    u would ask why these three girls not jealous and fight each other ? ..oh it is LN ( it is FICTION ) ... I like to ask back too , what the hell hero flying around like a bird and blowing fireball with his arm and got powers in Xianxia novel
  • Up to now the only harem I approve of is HJC because since the very first chapter you knew what the MC was about and would never say no to a nice pussy, He put his first love above everyone else, and the harem is being well develop not like ATG where you got an entire arc desviation just for the sake of harem until even the story turn into shit because author insist on turning the novel into a masturbation story.
     

  • I would against harem in real life
    Harem in real life? If a guy has a harem in RL then that means he is either extremely rich or struggling with money now. Just imagine how costly to have one gf/wife, what more if you got 2 or more girls.

  • I would against harem in real life
    Harem in real life? If a guy has a harem in RL then that means he is either extremely rich or struggling with money now. Just imagine how costly to have one gf/wife, what more if you got 2 or more girls.
    Yep. It's not as if a woman could be self-sufficient right lol??
  • starkpyre said:
    Probably because women are treated like not-so glorified masturbation tools?
    What novel, and I'm not talking about trash tier JP novels where this is basically the theme, but legitimate novels where women are depicted as 'masturbation tools' by the MC?
    Pray tell, as I've actually not encountered ANY so far.  The harems of some CN may be poorly written, but to describe them the way you do is just inaccurate.
  • Taryn said:
    starkpyre said:
    Probably because women are treated like not-so glorified masturbation tools?
    What novel, and I'm not talking about trash tier JP novels where this is basically the theme, but legitimate novels where women are depicted as 'masturbation tools' by the MC?
    Pray tell, as I've actually not encountered ANY so far.  The harems of some CN may be poorly written, but to describe them the way you do is just inaccurate.
    I think what they mean is that because of how poorly written harems are the women tend to only be their for fan-service purposes as consequence, instead of actually being fleshed out characters. Like how the author can spend pages (cumulatively) going on about the women's "jade like skin" and how much of a "peerless beauty" they are and any other stuff about how they look, instead of developing their personalities. Although I'd argue that it IS intentional considering the age old rule of sex sells. 
  • goddamn it ya all. You're all trying to apply modern western culture to a story supposed to be set in ancient china?

    http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-religions/secret-life-ancient-concubine-001301

    -Most people associate concubines with ancient China where Emperors were known to have kept thousands of concubines, however, the practice of taking concubines is certainly not exclusive to China.
  • goddamn it ya all. You're all trying to apply modern western culture to a story supposed to be set in ancient china?

    http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-religions/secret-life-ancient-concubine-001301

    -Most people associate concubines with ancient China where Emperors were known to have kept thousands of concubines, however, the practice of taking concubines is certainly not exclusive to China.
    It's not the plausibility of a harem that people hate but how the girls are written. They are like wooden dolls who are only there for the main character to save. 
  • The most vocal complaints about harem seem to come from the ones who are somehow morally against harems.
    I can't understand that perspective... They are obviously reading the wrong genre if they want something that conforms to their "morals".
    Most of these novels are set in a place where murder, rape and harem are commonplace.  That doesn't mean these actions are always glorified, but they are accepted as norm.  
    What irks me is that these people can accept killing millions, flying, reincarnation, and many other extraordinary things, but as soon as someone has more than 1 love interest, it becomes heresy, because it is "morally wrong" or goes against a "modern mindset".

    Even in modernity, having multiple women is glorified.  Look at Hugh Hefner or any other rich and powerful playboy.
    They may not be glorified for their morals, but who hasn't envied these people.  Sure they may not "marry" all of them, but what's the difference?

    I can understand that a majority of harems are poorly written and are for the sole purpose of fan service and plot filler.
    However, that isn't always the case, and most of these anti-harem arguments are blanket statements.
  • I don't like harem simply because it doesn't make for stories I like, same way as I don't like to read about school drama, some people like it, others don't. There is always the believability problem which is already a constant issue with xianxia. Basically all characters are blessed by otherworldly luck every other day, once every single woman they have anything to do with for 5 minutes or so falls in love with the MC it can add to the feeling that the whole novel is one huge embellishment to prove how amazing the MC is. Sooo yeah it's not so much a matter of morals, more taste.
  • Pettyx said:
    I don't like harem simply because it doesn't make for stories I like, same way as I don't like to read about school drama, some people like it, others don't. There is always the believability problem which is already a constant issue with xianxia. Basically all characters are blessed by otherworldly luck every other day, once every single woman they have anything to do with for 5 minutes or so falls in love with the MC it can add to the feeling that the whole novel is one huge embellishment to prove how amazing the MC is. Sooo yeah it's not so much a matter of morals, more taste.
    i challenge you. 

    find me 3, just 3 novels where they only have to spent 5 minutes together before the love blossoms. 

    Protip: you can't
  • edited August 2016
    i didn't feel like reading all the comments, but my reason for hating harem is not because the way women are treated, heck, it's a different world and human life sometimes worth garbage in those stories, but the real reason is the lust the MC sometime(90% of the time) might have in harem story. i'm enjoying reading the MC's growth, breakthrough, and reactions from different people to the MC come back and kick ass, classic example will be in the last few chapters in DE, before ji ning saved unity everyone was like "what is he doing? is he trying to suicide" and his friends were like "STOP! dont kill yourself!" and the next thing you know everyone was shocked. which brings me to another point,  the story will get so distracted from MC training and trying to reach the peak of power because most of the harem novels that i read so far start from "this girl is top beauty" than the MC having lust for her and it's like Pokemon "gotta catch them all" kind of harem, which most of the time makes the story  utter shit.
  • Pettyx said:
    I don't like harem simply because it doesn't make for stories I like, same way as I don't like to read about school drama, some people like it, others don't. There is always the believability problem which is already a constant issue with xianxia. Basically all characters are blessed by otherworldly luck every other day, once every single woman they have anything to do with for 5 minutes or so falls in love with the MC it can add to the feeling that the whole novel is one huge embellishment to prove how amazing the MC is. Sooo yeah it's not so much a matter of morals, more taste.
    i challenge you. 

    find me 3, just 3 novels where they only have to spent 5 minutes together before the love blossoms. 

    Protip: you can't
    MGA, TDG, ATG, and tbh those are the only harem that i got far before dropping them(except MGA, i still read it)
  • edited August 2016
    TilTan said:
    Pettyx said:
    I don't like harem simply because it doesn't make for stories I like, same way as I don't like to read about school drama, some people like it, others don't. There is always the believability problem which is already a constant issue with xianxia. Basically all characters are blessed by otherworldly luck every other day, once every single woman they have anything to do with for 5 minutes or so falls in love with the MC it can add to the feeling that the whole novel is one huge embellishment to prove how amazing the MC is. Sooo yeah it's not so much a matter of morals, more taste.
    i challenge you. 

    find me 3, just 3 novels where they only have to spent 5 minutes together before the love blossoms. 

    Protip: you can't
    MGA, TDG, ATG, and tbh those are the only harem that i got far before dropping them(except MGA, i still read it)
    Let's see...
    MGA - First love(s) were the sisters
    The elder sister he had a typical teenage 'love' for, but in no way was he infatuated with her from the start. Even more so with the younger sister. Only with trials and repeated bickering and getting to know each other's personality did they start to like one another.
    CF didn't even truly like the older sister until much later. --- This series doesn't fit in the "5 minutes" category.
    ZL same thing. These are the only real lovers he has so far.

    TDG - Bit more complicated, but his 'first love' was already his lover in his past life, so that just doesn't even need to be talked about. His second lover actually liked him a lot but it took hell of a lot more than 5 minutes, like years I would say before he even noticed. Even now in the TL he's just begun to accept her really. The other potential harem candidates aren't even on his radar.

    ATG - The only harem member that this could possibly apply to would be XL, but she knows YC from the past, which means they've had a long standing relationship.
    Little Fairy which is probably the most controversial heroine in the novel (imo) had to go through near death hardships for them to get together.

    I don't really see how these novels apply at all, unless you're just extremely biased or just didn't read the novel in depth at all.
    And no, I'm not a super fangirl of any of these novels, but at least criticise them with some basis/facts.
  • edited August 2016
    Taryn said:
    TilTan said:
    Pettyx said:
    I don't like harem simply because it doesn't make for stories I like, same way as I don't like to read about school drama, some people like it, others don't. There is always the believability problem which is already a constant issue with xianxia. Basically all characters are blessed by otherworldly luck every other day, once every single woman they have anything to do with for 5 minutes or so falls in love with the MC it can add to the feeling that the whole novel is one huge embellishment to prove how amazing the MC is. Sooo yeah it's not so much a matter of morals, more taste.
    i challenge you. 

    find me 3, just 3 novels where they only have to spent 5 minutes together before the love blossoms. 

    Protip: you can't
    MGA, TDG, ATG, and tbh those are the only harem that i got far before dropping them(except MGA, i still read it)
    Let's see...
    MGA - First love(s) were the sisters
    The elder sister he had a typical teenage 'love' for, but in no way was he infatuated with her from the start. Even more so with the younger sister. Only with trials and repeated bickering and getting to know each other's personality did they start to like one another.
    CF didn't even truly like the older sister until much later. --- This series doesn't fit in the "5 minutes" category.
    ZL same thing. These are the only real lovers he has so far.

    TDG - Bit more complicated, but his 'first love' was already his lover in his past life, so that just doesn't even need to be talked about. His second lover actually liked him a lot but it took hell of a lot more than 5 minutes, like years I would say before he even noticed. Even now in the TL he's just begun to accept her really. The other potential harem candidates aren't even on his radar.

    ATG - The only harem member that this could possibly apply to would be XL, but she knows YC from the past, which means they've had a long standing relationship.
    Little Fairy which is probably the most controversial heroine in the novel (imo) had to go through near death hardships for them to get together.

    I don't really see how these novels apply at all, unless you're just extremely biased or just didn't read the novel in depth at all.
    And no, I'm not a super fangirl of any of these novels, but at least criticise them with some basis/facts.
    how do you define "5 minutes"? for me complex love is something like coiling dragon, DE, Stellar Transformation, and "5 minutes" is the novels i mentioned or maybe i got the concept wrong, because the love part happens in 5 minutes, but the relationship is complex(most likely i got it wrong) so i might be talking about something completely different. now i might have to re-read all of those novels because i can give you general idea of what happened but not specific details, now i did read all of them, but i need to read them again to refresh my mind, it's been too long for my memory to remember the specific details.

    might contain spoiler:
    MGA - i don't remember how the younger sister relationship started, but the older one the dad drugged both CF and her, and they had sex, and CF was like "i will be responsible" and that's pretty much it, she was older than him, and too proud to accept him but it still happened, than there was all the mess with the marriage which just strengthen their relationship(CF and older sister had sex in the forest or something like that) than the relationship that didn't make any sense to me was ZL, first of all, you are right, MGA doesn't fit in the "5 minute", i thought about it and the pre-relationship is complicated, but than they just become loyal dogs and there's no really love involved, only "i will die for you" that they say to each other here and there but that's pretty much it, now back to ZL, iirc they first met at the imperial tomb and fought for secret skill while she did everything to open it than CF fought her and even stole the secret skill from her, than the next time they met, they were going to invade the monsters but not only she didn't ask her grandfather to help get rid of him, she even kept him close to her for some reason, and let him tease her the whole time(maybe i missed something i honestly feel like i missed something because when i think over it it just doesn't make any sense) than i don't remember what happened lol. honestly i feel stupid, i need to re-read it but i don't have time.

    TDG - it's not complicated and even retarded in my opinion, first you need to understand that the relationship happened in the past life and he's the only one who remember what happened, so basically it's like it never happened, now that creep comes out of no where in class, declares to everyone that he loves you, annoy you and "tease" you every time he can, and all that because in the past life you were his wife, but you have no idea about it, in my opinion i don't even know how she fell for him, than and his 2nd lover, it literally took 5 minutes for her to fall in love, he told her the symptoms for the disease she had, he cured her, and she fell for him, he ignored her feeling the whole time, only later when he found out that she were the masked girl who saved his life multiple times in the past life, and started to accept her out of pity and debt rather than him loving her. 

    ATG - little aunt loved him the whole time and i don't want to complain about it because there's nothing to complain, i don't remember how it happened with princess (i actually remember what happened but not in details but i don't remember how she fell in love) with little fairy he first met her in a shop and he bought something she needed to cure cold invasion she had, but than he promised to heal her if she accept his condition (which one of them was to be allowed to call her little fairy iirc) and another one was to protect him in the forest when he went to train, she protected him as promised but some bird stole his pendant and she helped him to chase it and get the pendant just to get ambushed by dragons, she got hurt almost crippled, he took her to the dragon trail when she begged him to let her die, he preserved life for 6 months when she was crippled and her life force was almost gone, basically 6 months of torture just to be raped in the end to restore and even help her breakthrough in cultivation, does it even count as harem? i mean that relationship is so fucked...


    maybe you are right, they are not in the "5 minute" category but that's how it happens in those novels  - MC meets "beauty", she's acting high and mighty, MC falls for her beauty, saves her life in some situation that was made up by author so she can join the harem, and than she's in the harem and she's not worth the reader time most of the time( except ZL, because she actually played big role in MGA) that's how i categorized falls in love in "5 minutes" from no relationship to MC saves her and she's harem... something that i wouldn't count as "5 minutes" is when both sides fall in love with each other without MC needing to save the day. in reality love can happen instantly or it can happen gradually, but in most harem, the girl clearly have no interest in the MC, and the next thing you know she's harem...
  • too many walls of text... people do care about this shit... my god...

    asian authors love harem. that's a fact.

    western people, which means most of us, find this weird. Why? lots of reason but I think most of them end up in a single one: we are not a MC from a novel, we do not have super powers, we are real people, we can get as much as we want, but in the end we can't share the same genuine feeling with another person. (i'm talking about love you dickheads) 

    screw religion and other stupid reasons, at least for me, real love between two people is something, IMO, that can't be shared.
  • edited September 2016
    Because I'd rather be reading about cultivation, and adventure, and not crappy writing, about someone's crappy love nest.

    I don't have any moral problems with it in fictional stories, it's just boring.
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