Sponsorship pricing model

Description
If you pay for 90 chapters you're still paying the same price per chapter, the sole advantage to purchasing higher tiers is to read more.

I believe it would be a good idea to trial a system where higher tiers of chapters get cheaper so you're paying 20% the normal rate in the end. Clearly, this might cut into your $190 profits but it may also encourage more people to donate.

The current system is preying on people who make bad financial decisions as next month, you're paying $190 but receive no extra chapters to read. Sure you're 190 chapters ahead, but you're still paying $190 for chapters you've already read just to keep reading new chapters.

Suggestions
  1. Price of each chapter decreases the more chapters you order. Total price $100 or less.
  2. Paying to read ahead 10 chapters should remain at 10 chapters for the rest of the book despite not paying. Paying for another 10 chapters should send you 20 chapters ahead.
Why are you posting?
My brother makes bad financial decisions and is heavily in debt, so when I found out he spent $190 the other day just to read 95 more chapters... And it's not even a one-off payment... He still has to pay for chapters he's already read next month...

I'm sickened. Both in my part in this for recommending this site, and the site itself. I had imagined WW as the bastion of good faith.

You're sponsoring the translator
You're paying for a service, don't confuse this with donating. If you truly wish to sponsor the translator, do it without expectation of rewards.

You don't have to pay if you're not happy
Mobile games are addicting, and prey on their customers with microtransactions. How is this different?

You keep saying microtransactions, but it's not
Microtransaction (sometimes abbreviated as MTX) is a business model where users can purchase virtual goods via micropayments. Microtransactions are often used in free-to-play games to provide a revenue source for the developers.

The price model not becoming cheaper per chapter is fair
Yes, I didn't say it wasn't. The problem is how much it adds up to.

They don't make much money
Who told you this? They receive a lot of visitors and display ads, then offer a subscription model for a service that deals in text. I've seen profitable games offering more, and earning less. To put this into perspective, YouTube and Imgur deliver videos and pictures but are they struggling financially? WW upkeep is profitable just from ad revenue alone. This isn't considering employees.

Then you should consider the patreon and sponsorship systems, how much does that bring in? For ren's account, just the patreon alone is estimated around $5,000 to $7,500 a month for 535 patreons.

That's $60,000 to $90,000 a year. And that's because he just started a new book. 3 months ago he was earning 400% this amount. And this is assuming that patreons didn't cancel immediately after gaining access which skews the numbers.

Qidian is worse
Actually, no. Qidian offers it for cheaper and allows you to read ahead for free. They just offer one-off payments for each chapter which can amount to more as you don't unlock new chapters when previous ones release. Of course, I may be wrong here and they do.

There's a way to calculate this, but it variates on what books you're comparing and how much you're spending.

If you want to read ahead on everything on WW and Qidian, Qidian is cheaper. WW's sole advantage is a constant X chapters ahead [i]for that month[/i]. Next month I can pay $0.12 to read one chapter ahead on Qidian, or $190 to read one chapter ahead on WW.

Everyone does this
Lack of discounts, a total price in the hundreds? No. They don't.

Other novels are cheaper than A Will Eternal
True, I talking about this novel as it's what my brother purchased.

Summery
I'm hoping that WW does the right thing and changes their pricing model, or at least contest my claims.

I recommended a book on WuxiaWorld to my brother, we both enjoy reading web novels.
I didn't think there would be a problem.
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Comments

  • RWXRWX
    edited July 2018
    I'll respond to this in a day or two, but before I do that - is your brother the one who, shortly after you made this post, requested a full refund of both his VIP status and his AWE sponsorship?  Just to clarify so that I know who I'm talking to.
  • No. He hasn't asked for a refund, and doesn't intend to.

    I'm not asking for a refund or similar either, it's a service that was paid for in full knowledge of the total price.
  • Hmm, to be honest - reading this doesn't make me feel like to do sponsorships here on WW in the near future.
    My two cents there:
    • I think there has to be a difference between paying for "going" ahead for x chapters and "staying" the same amount of chapters ahead.
    • "Going" ahead has to be an one time fee and can be higher priced.
    • "Staying" ahead should be a monthly/quarterly/yearly fee and it has to be priced in a way that multiple payment absolutely is avoided.
      The translation of a chapter is an one time service. Therefore I should only pay once for it. That's just fair.
      For example: If for some reasons a translator doesn't translate anything within a month I shouldn't have to pay him anything for that month to "stay" the already paid amount of chapters ahead.
    • To get a fair model this pricing has also to take into account how many chapters per week/month are translated. 
      The more chapters are translated per month the more I should pay for it to stay ahead.
    • Probably even word count/chapter or word count/month should also be calculated into this - maybe even more than the amount of chapters.
      Usually it should be nearly the same amount of work to translate 10 chapters with 2000 words or 5 chapters with 4000 words...
  • I'd like to apologize for how confrontational my post is, my brother only informed me because he wanted to let me read ahead. Both he, and I do not have anything against WuxiaWorld. I've been a long-time fan of your site ever since you were translating Coiling Dragon.

    My concern is only with how much he's spent, and how much he's likely to spend again. He's already told me of his intention to sponsor again once he can unlock another 95 new chapters... It is truly a great story, else he would never have been so impatient to read ahead :P

    Obviously this is an issue that's between us, and most sponsors at that price can easily afford such a thing. I'm not seeking to address that situation, it was a purchase made in good faith with full disclosure on the services provided.

    It's ironic, but this is only an issue because the translators at WuxiaWorld have been working very hard, so hard that it's actually raised the total amount of unreleased chapters, this is on top of a already high release schedule.

    Which in turn, raised the amount of chapters one can pay to read ahead.

    I don't have an issue with any of this, I'm amazed at the quality and quantity that WuxiaWorld has released.

    I'm concerned however, at the pricing model which hasn't adapted in turn; Which is the entire point of my post.

    I'm not accusing WuxiaWorld of greed, the current model makes a lot of sense when there are only 10 chapters ahead. Which in turn, inspires the translators to work harder to release more chapters and increase the amount they earn. At which point the numbers involved begin to turn troublesome. It's not something you would predict, until now the release schedule of WuxiaWorld was already astounding, and to think that it would increase even further...

    I've made two suggestions above, and I'd like to rephase them slightly.

    Price of each chapter decreases the more chapters you order. Total price $100 or less.

    Doesn't it mean that if I translate too much, I'm being paid less? 

    No, it means that the amount of money people are willing to spend actually increases because they can get cheaper deals. If you can get 3 chapters for $6 or 10 chapters for $10 it's a no-brainer if you can afford the second option.

    Paying to read ahead 10 chapters should remain at 10 chapters for the rest of the book despite not paying. Paying for another 10 chapters should send you 20 chapters ahead.

    This is actually my favorite suggestion, for obvious reasons.

    It both encourages more people to sponsor, and rewards those that sponsor regularly. Not everyone can afford $100, some can only afford $10. But in the end the one that paid a single $30 on the 3rd month will still have read more chapters than the one who paid $10 every month. Loyal fans are not rewarded.

    If I can sponsor $100 now and read 50 chapters ahead, and I know I would continue to read 50 chapters ahead the next month; This is on a completely different level of temptation than the current system where any evidence of my sponsorship has been wiped away.

    If I sponsor $10 a month and I know that each month rewards me even more than the last month, why would I cancel this subscription? Why not wait until I reach the peak? And yet by then I no longer wish to cancel as it's somewhat of a habit. Also my fancy sponsor title would disappear.

    It turns from a case of "Do I want to spend $10 for 1 month of 5 chapters ahead" to "Do I want to spend $10 to read 5 chapters ahead, then when I get another $10, I can read even further ahead"

    There's several factors I think would come into play here.

    Wealthy people, why would they continue spending $ when they already have it all?
    Because how much of your userbase are wealthy? How many actually subscribe monthly, and how many come back to sponsor again?

    People that sponsor monthly.
    How many of them increase the amount they sponsor? How many cancel?

    The third is people that don't purchase a package at all.
    How many of them were turned away from the way their chapters were reset each month?
    A new sponsor for $5 is another $5 you didn't have before, and there are very good chances that they will not cancel this if they know they will receive extra benefits the next month.

    The biggest disincentive to the entire system is obviously that if I sponsor $20 a month and hit the $40 cap the next month, wouldn't I just cancel? Then when you could've made $60 on the 3rd month, you only have $40.

    The key thing you need to remember, how many new sponsors will you attract with this deal? If someone else signs up for $10 on the first month, doesn't that mean you've gained $70 on the third month when you only expected $60?

    Sponsoring to activate your tier

    You could also offer "You're a Celestial Necromancer! This is currently [Inactive]. This can be reactivated at any time for $5 a month! Every month, your tier will be recalculated to see if you've reached the criteria for the next tier!"

    The number of people who've cancelled immediately, just how many of them will still turn this on? I know I would without even thinking about it, and this is immediately after making this post. Not only did someone sponsor $190, they're still sponsoring another $5 a month.

    Of course, there's definitely scenarios that need to be taken into consideration.

    The first scenario is when there just isn't that many advanced chapters, wouldn't this just hurt those translators? How could the number of new sponsors each month, match the ones I already have? I believe the next statement applies here however.

    Assuming everyone cancels immediately after hitting the cap, after 3 months assuming you gained 30-40% more sponsorships than normal. Does this match or overcome the amount of sponsorships you expected.



    Again, I apologize for how confrontational my post was.
  • edited July 2018
    Hmm, some comments to that from me:

    Paying to read ahead 10 chapters should remain at 10 chapters for the rest of the book despite not paying. Paying for another 10 chapters should send you 20 chapters ahead.

    That's not so easy in my opinion, because it doesn't also respect the continuous effort of the translators. I think it's just fair to give them more if they are translating more within a certain time.
    But this has also to be bound to how many chapters they translate per month and not only to how many chapters they are ahead compared to the public release.

    Also there should be some kind of cap on how many chapters the translators are allowed to go ahead compared to the public release. Otherwise the gap between the private and public released chapters gets out of control which then causes hiccups like the actual one. 

    Therefore there should be a maximum time/date difference between the date of translation/private release and the date of the public release of a chapter.
    This maximum time/date difference should depend on how many chapters a translator usually translates per month. The more chapters he/she translates the longer the maximum time difference between the private and the public release of a chapter should be. 
    An example to explain it: A translator who just translates 10 chapters/month should only be allowed to do the private release two weeks ahead to the public release of that chapter. But a translator who translates 60 chapters/month should be allowed to do the private release up to somewhat between four and maybe six weeks ahead to the public release of that chapter.

    This allows the translators who put more effort into translation to gain more profits from it while also keeping everything else around in check.
    Combined with a reasonable "price scale" both the translators and the sponsors should profit on a fair base from it.  
  • Hmm, to be honest - reading this doesn't make me feel like to do sponsorships here on WW in the near future.
    My two cents there:
    • I think there has to be a difference between paying for "going" ahead for x chapters and "staying" the same amount of chapters ahead.
    • "Going" ahead has to be an one time fee and can be higher priced.
    • "Staying" ahead should be a monthly/quarterly/yearly fee and it has to be priced in a way that multiple payment absolutely is avoided.
      The translation of a chapter is an one time service. Therefore I should only pay once for it. That's just fair.
      For example: If for some reasons a translator doesn't translate anything within a month I shouldn't have to pay him anything for that month to "stay" the already paid amount of chapters ahead.
    • To get a fair model this pricing has also to take into account how many chapters per week/month are translated. 
      The more chapters are translated per month the more I should pay for it to stay ahead.
    • Probably even word count/chapter or word count/month should also be calculated into this - maybe even more than the amount of chapters.
      Usually it should be nearly the same amount of work to translate 10 chapters with 2000 words or 5 chapters with 4000 words...
    I agree with this, I was reading AWE and just reached the latest chapter. The novel and translation both are fantastic so I was thinking of paying for advance chapters which in in turn got me thinking on what would happen next month. If I pay for 95 chapters and then will it be reset next month and I would be 95 chapters ahead of the 95 advance chapters in the previous month or would I just be 95 chapters ahead of the public release chapters. If its the former the as walkerjonny said it would make sense to pay more. If its the latter then its preying because you are just paying 190$ to read 1 chapter per day.

    I think it should be based on release schedule , beginning or end of the month can be picked. For ex: Say you pick the beginning and at the 1st of the month you are at 700 chapters and your release is 1 chapter per day. So for people who pay 190$ they should be able to read till 795. Then at start of next month public release is at 730 but people who continue to pay should be able to read till 795+95 = 890 chapters.

    Or if you pick end of month schedule which I believe would be more fair for subscribers who are paying premium for more advance chapters. In this case as per your release schedule if you are going to be at 730 chapters at end of month then at the beginning of that month you release 730+95 chapters for the high tier subscribers. So they really get the sense of paying ahead throughout the month. And so on....

    I could not find much info about sponsorship  terms and conditions on the FAQ, it would be a good I dea to summarize it there so that its easy to find.
    As it is subscription and not donation I should get value for what I pay. Currently as per what sharlot says after the first month there is very little value. First month I pay 2$ per advance chapter and the next month it increases to 3$ by the 3rd month I am paying for nothing.

    I am new, and am only seeing it from a newcomers perspective, I think this should be cleared up.


  • Support OP with his Post. I really love Wuxiaworld and my favorite Novel Martial World. So I too subscribed to the sponsorship to get a few chapters ahead.

    I don't know if the pricing is identical with every novel but the first thing that I was wondering about was the fact that every higher Tier was even more expensive than the one before. Eg. 2 Chapters ahead 5$ - 5 Chapters ahead 15$ - 10 Chapters $30 and so on. That makes every additional chapter even more expensive.

    The translator of MW has a crazy output of 2 Chapters a day thats 60 Chapters a month on average. So I paid the 100$ sponsorship to support his work. But doing the math to continue paying is just self punishing because the way sponsorship works right now just doesnt make sense. It just doesnt benefit the payer, on the contrary it even punishes me for paying.

    So I canceled the payment and am reduced to the public chapter count regardless of the fact that I once paid 100$ for the translation. So now I even had to wait for the public chapters to catch up again and even paid for that "waiting" time. Just doesnt seem plausibel to me.

    I really want to support this website and my favorite novel. Love the work the people here on WW are doing. Please just give me a way to support the author and website without having the feeling that it is actually not in my interest to pay money for it.

    PS: Sorry for my bad english I am not a native speaker. My post is not meant to be offensive in any way.


  • I completely agree that the pricing model needs to be changed. If you pay $200 for 100 advance chapters you shouldn't have to pay that same fee each month just to retain a constant release rate, the value in that initial purchase is getting advance chapters. After you've read up to date the tier loses it's value but it makes you not want to unsubscribe because you would have to stop reading for over a month even though that' s the best option financially and enjoyment wise because you get to binge read. The initial price should be changed to be lower and the months where you just pay to keep up to date should be drastically reduced. Even if you can afford this it's so stupid to keep paying. I'm just now unsubscribing after months from now on until something changes, as should everybody else. I love to read these novels but this is the best decision. Nobody should keep paying this amount for some reading, no matter how much you enjoy it.
  • RWX said:
    I'll respond to this in a day or two, but before I do that - is your brother the one who, shortly after you made this post, requested a full refund of both his VIP status and his AWE sponsorship?  Just to clarify so that I know who I'm talking to.
    I have been waiting for these 2 days to pass for the past 1 month approx. to get an answer for this from RWX. The reason being that I have been thinking about getting a VIP membership to sponsor a novel. However, I agree with the OP that if you are being charged 10$/month (as an example) for 2 chapters, you should get 2 chapters extra each month instead of just the 2 chapters lead. So that at the end of 12 months when you have spent 120$ you are 24 chapters ahead instead of just 2 which you got initially. But I imagine there won't be an answer coming soon  as it directly relates to the earning on the website.
  • UWK_87 said:
    RWX said:
    I'll respond to this in a day or two, but before I do that - is your brother the one who, shortly after you made this post, requested a full refund of both his VIP status and his AWE sponsorship?  Just to clarify so that I know who I'm talking to.
    I have been waiting for these 2 days to pass for the past 1 month approx. to get an answer for this from RWX. The reason being that I have been thinking about getting a VIP membership to sponsor a novel. However, I agree with the OP that if you are being charged 10$/month (as an example) for 2 chapters, you should get 2 chapters extra each month instead of just the 2 chapters lead. So that at the end of 12 months when you have spent 120$ you are 24 chapters ahead instead of just 2 which you got initially. But I imagine there won't be an answer coming soon  as it directly relates to the earning on the website.
    Yeah, the subscription has already lapsed by now but it's disappointing that RWX didn't reply after finding out that no, we have nothing to do with people who tried to get a refund/chargeback.

    "kcen desiurb" (Backwards) should suffice as proof we have read advanced chapters, regardless.

  • I wish there was a one-time payment option. Automatic renewals never sat well with me. I'd rather put down $60 right away and never have to think about it again than be paying $5 a month for twelve months. I know I can cancel subscriptions immediately but it just makes my mental bookkeeping easier to have a one time payment and is easier on my mind if I never have to think about it again. Otherwise I see this $5 expense every month and panic thinking somebody stole my credit card.

    Also, I know this has been said before, but I would really, really like to see either Paypal or Discover implemented as payment methods. Heck, I'd be fine paying in bitcoin if you guys took that.
  • I agree with OP and others, this payment model is confusing and non-sensical.

    The only acceptable way I've found to support the novels I enjoy, is to buy a low-tier amount I can afford, then upgrade it in the last 2 days of the subscribed month with a ~15x reduction in price, read a whole bunch of chapters in one sitting, then cancel the subscription and wait for the free chapters to catch up - and start over.

    It feels a bit like taking advantage of the system, but it's honestly all I can afford, and it's not like it doesn't hurt to have to wait for chapters to catch up again. That's my justification.
    Paying to read ahead 10 chapters should remain at 10 chapters for the rest of the book despite not paying. Paying for another 10 chapters should send you 20 chapters ahead.

    This seems like a logical model for readers. It would also remove the option to 'game' the system like I do.

  • Then the question becomes are you all willing to have slower release rates? I can tell you now if it was switch to a buy chapter would immediately force a mass majority of translator who are full time to gave up full time because there be no way to support themselves with this model. This means either translator slow down translation by a lot because now its just a side job or quit all together. Or slow down free release do there will be more premium release (aka exactly what QI translators had to do) Because translating 14 a week is already full time and you're asking translator to have to translate more  than that to earn money constantly, not a very reasonable.

    Only way this model works is for WW to go the route QI did and have slow free release  (or no free release) and lock chapters behind a paywall. The current system is you have a small group of people paying for everyone else. The people are willing to put be the top tier sponsors are the people keep the translators afloat. If you were to eliminate that well then everyone else will have to pay to make up for it. The sponsor system exist for people who want to support/sponsor the translator. The advance chapters are the bonus the translator gave to people who support them.
  • Rex said:
    Then the question becomes are you all willing to have slower release rates? I can tell you now if it was switch to a buy chapter would immediately force a mass majority of translator who are full time to gave up full time because there be no way to support themselves with this model. This means either translator slow down translation by a lot because now its just a side job or quit all together. Or slow down free release do there will be more premium release (aka exactly what QI translators had to do) Because translating 14 a week is already full time and you're asking translator to have to translate more  than that to earn money constantly, not a very reasonable.

    Only way this model works is for WW to go the route QI did and have slow free release  (or no free release) and lock chapters behind a paywall. The current system is you have a small group of people paying for everyone else. The people are willing to put be the top tier sponsors are the people keep the translators afloat. If you were to eliminate that well then everyone else will have to pay to make up for it. The sponsor system exist for people who want to support/sponsor the translator. The advance chapters are the bonus the translator gave to people who support them.
    Not sure you understood what you just read because you just said WW is price gouging, and that if chapters were cheaper there would be zero new customers.
  • Sharlot said:
    Not sure you understood what you just read because you just said WW is price gouging, and that if chapters were cheaper there would be zero new customers.
    What you all suggesting is that the translators maintain a 14 chapter a week speed but then translate more on top of that in order to do one time sales. It's an extremely impractical model for the translator. Like I stated only way that would work is the free release get cut down and we move to a premium chapter model like what QI had. Otherwise where is the translator going to get all the advance chapters for people to buy?

    You guys basically asking for a premium chapter paywall system which is fine but then at the same time there is no way for free release to be able to maintain the speed it does now simple as that because translators would have to focus more on translating premium chapters or else they won't be making any money.

    Yes, its definitely better deal for people willing to pay but the real question is how does the mass majority of reader that don't pay would feel about it and how many of them would be willing to pay and if that would off set the lose. I have no idea if that model will work, it could we won't know until someone try it. But one thing that is for sure is free chapter translation speed will go down a lot. That's something that won't change.

  • Rex said:
    Sharlot said:
    Not sure you understood what you just read because you just said WW is price gouging, and that if chapters were cheaper there would be zero new customers.
    What you all suggesting is that the translators maintain a 14 chapter a week speed but then translate more on top of that in order to do one time sales. It's an extremely impractical model for the translator. Like I stated only way that would work is the free release get cut down and we move to a premium chapter model like what QI had. Otherwise where is the translator going to get all the advance chapters for people to buy?

    You guys basically asking for a premium chapter paywall system which is fine but then at the same time there is no way for free release to be able to maintain the speed it does now simple as that because translators would have to focus more on translating premium chapters or else they won't be making any money.

    Yes, its definitely better deal for people willing to pay but the real question is how does the mass majority of reader that don't pay would feel about it and how many of them would be willing to pay and if that would off set the lose. I have no idea if that model will work, it could we won't know until someone try it. But one thing that is for sure is free chapter translation speed will go down a lot. That's something that won't change.

    You must know something I don't, are they really that tight on money that $200 per month per reader is the only way the site can continue to run?
  • If WW had 10 million subscribers paying $5 per month then lower sponsorship prices would be viable, because that's $50 million a month. Plenty for the translators and website at it's current level. But WW doesn't have that many subscribers because much of the audience doesn't have any money to speak of. So, the trick is to get readers who are willing to spend money to come to Wuxia World. If that happens more people should be buying chapters and because more people are buying advanced chapters would make it so that the revenue from those chapters would be the same or greater even though the product is being sold more cheaply, simply because there's more people reading it.

    So to get more readers who are willing to pay to read chapters, you need to find people who both have money to spend and like to read the kind of stories available on this website. Amazon is such a place. Coiling Dragon is already up there, but every completed novel on Wuxia World should be up there too. At the end of every book, there should be a back link, and the Author's page should link to a blog feed on Wuxia World, offering free chapters of newly translated novels to any who want to come. Use your completed novels as fishing hooks to draw in paying customers.

    So, that's the HungryTentacle strategy. Get more chapters by getting other people to pay for them.
  • Sharlot said:
    Rex said:
    Sharlot said:
    Not sure you understood what you just read because you just said WW is price gouging, and that if chapters were cheaper there would be zero new customers.
    What you all suggesting is that the translators maintain a 14 chapter a week speed but then translate more on top of that in order to do one time sales. It's an extremely impractical model for the translator. Like I stated only way that would work is the free release get cut down and we move to a premium chapter model like what QI had. Otherwise where is the translator going to get all the advance chapters for people to buy?

    You guys basically asking for a premium chapter paywall system which is fine but then at the same time there is no way for free release to be able to maintain the speed it does now simple as that because translators would have to focus more on translating premium chapters or else they won't be making any money.

    Yes, its definitely better deal for people willing to pay but the real question is how does the mass majority of reader that don't pay would feel about it and how many of them would be willing to pay and if that would off set the lose. I have no idea if that model will work, it could we won't know until someone try it. But one thing that is for sure is free chapter translation speed will go down a lot. That's something that won't change.

    You must know something I don't, are they really that tight on money that $200 per month per reader is the only way the site can continue to run?
    I can tell you I survive on less than 300 sponsors and 90% of the money come from the people at the highest tiers. I make decent amount for a student but no where near what my expected salary would be once I graduate. I get tens of thousands of views a day but less than 300 people is willing to put any money into it.(And I translate what a lot of people consider to the like one of the top novel in term of story quality) Most translator's income are also gathered at the top tiers. All of you only look at say Ren and DB who are by far the 2 most popular translator who get support most translator don't even get close to. I mean just look at Ren's patron, he post nothing there anymore and has more patreon than I or most translators have sponsors.(this was when I checked 1-2 month ago)

    So suppose we go into an pay per chapter system. The sponsors will all probably still be willing to pay (and lot less than before) but the real question is how many of those people that aren't even willing to sponsor 1-5 dollar a month be willing to pay for chapters? I honestly don't know the answer but I somehow don't feel like it would be a pretty one for translators. At least that my view given the limited data I have. No idea what might really happen but given how QI is doing the same thing and getting such a negative reaction for it too idk how well it will go over with most people. I personally don't feel like it will go well but who knows what will happen.


  • I didn't read all of the replies here because I feel like you're misunderstanding something from the very beginning. If a series is at chapter 100, and you sponsor the translator for the price of 95 chapters, you are not buying chapter 101-195 today as a one time/one day transaction. For the next month, you are 95 chapters ahead of the most current free release. Using AWE in a theoretical situation. AWE seems to release 60-80 chapters a month. So, if you pay for 95 advanced chapters on the first of the month, you are at 195. On the last day of the month though, you are not at 195. You are at 255-275. If you choose to cancel your subscription the next month, you will drop back to 160-180, but you will be back up to 255ish in about a month, if you wait for the free chapters to catch up, given the fast release speed.

    With that out of the way, your wish to be ahead by x amount forever, for a one time down payment, isn't reasonable. You can't buy a person's time for the next 2 years with a one-time payment of $200. Yes, that's a lot of money to you. But that doesn't even pay rent this month. They're not going to be homeless and starving, slaving away to release 2-3 chapters a day and keeping you 95 chapters ahead of everyone else, because that one time, you paid them 3-4 8 hour days worth of work from any standard job. I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. Most people work for a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly paycheck, and so do the people here.

    The chapters becoming cheaper isn't a bad idea. However, it's rather funny to hear that after you complain about addiction and microtransactions... I certainly think it's a good idea for hooking people, but it goes against your previous complaints.

    I have no idea how much Ren makes. I find your number acceptable though because they make no difference in what I say next.
    First of all, Ren is a VERY good translator. Second of all, he needs to make a living. For a few years, he makes that money, but after those years are up, he has to find a new source. That means he has to find a new book and a new group of subscribers. And that doesn't happen overnight. That's valid for all the translators, both good and bad. Maybe they can do this for 10+ years, or maybe this falls out next year. So, if they really are making as much money as you claim, it's quite fair. Third of all, you're counting all that money, but you're not counting the time. 60-90k a year is a decent amount of money, if it's even accurate, but it's nothing special if you're putting in 10+ hours a day for the whole year. Especially not for a talented translator.

    One last thing. From what I understand, the statement was somewhat valid when you made this post... However, from what I've heard recently, QI is no longer doing the free releases. At the very least, I know a couple of the books I read there have not released a free chapter in 3 weeks or more. They do still give you SS, but that only covers about 2-3 chapters a day from all their books. AWE releases 2-3 chapters a day by itself. So, Qidian is not even close to cheaper now, and it wasn't then either considering the release speed. That's actually what brought this post to my attention. Someone was complaining about the lack of free releases there.
  • Really the issue is that Wuxia World doesn't have the economies of scale that similar services do. On Kindle Unlimitied you get a lot to read really cheaply because A) Everybody who's in Kindle Unlimited is paying to be there, so there's no leeches and B) There's more people in general, so even if people are only throwing $10 in a month, more people are doing so, which means there's more money in the pot. Same thing with services like Netflix. The catch with Wuxia World is that there aren't as many people paying, so a larger burden has to be supported by fewer people.

    I tend to think that's a less stable foundation to rely on a few patrons then to rely on many patrons though. It would be interesting to see if somebody went ahead and made a sponsors-only novel on this site with cheap sponsorship but have the vast majority of the content behind a permanent paywall. Of course, given the current state of the translation industry (cough QI cough) it's only a matter of time before it would get ripped off and posted on another site just to rack up some adsense revenue.

    I personally spend $20 per month on an AWE sponsorships right now, though I might bump that up a bit. I think, if I read like 40 chapters of a novel translation and was able to get two or three books worth of content for $20 I'd pay that because that's about what I'd pay for ebooks on Amazon. That's small money for sponsorships but if you even get a thousand readers like me a month reading a novel completely behind a paywall so that everyone had to pay that's a pretty good decent income, though this is entirely dependent on your audience demographics. If your average reader is a dead-broke 15 year old kid then you aren't going to get many buyers. On the other hand, I know at least 2 of the high-level sponsors for A Will Eternal are professional western fantasy authors who can write off sponsorships on their taxes and so have no issue shelling out $250 a month. It's hard to say what the market is for xianxia and what the idea pricing system should be.
  • Well, there is no perfect system. With that said, I think WW has the best system I've seen. There might be some tweaks to it that could make it a little better, but a big part of that is perception. What makes something better for you, might make things worse for someone else. You're thinking of what you would like and what would get a little more money out of you, but they have to look at the bigger picture. Who knows though, the bigger picture can easily change, and maybe someone will toss out a good tweak to the current system. So it's always worth mentioning...?

    Anyway, don't fool yourself on Kindle Unlimited. That works because it's on a massive scale that covers a broad range of interest and low upkeep costs. WW is covering more of a niche. Though it is a growing niche, it will probably never reach the size of Kindle Unlimited. At its greatest height, it would probably be a subsection of a subsection in Kindle Unlimited. The system that works for them wouldn't see anywhere near the success for other places.

    Personally, I think what WW should do is push their $5 program by messing up how the pages appear if someone uses ad-blocker on a free account, lol. Would suck for people like me, who don't pay anything. But it might get a lot of people to dish out that $5 subscription.
    "We're sorry to hear that something is weird with your page setup. It says here that you are a free member. Are you using Ad-block? Ah, I see. Well, unfortunately, Ad-block seems to be causing issues for free users. If you turn it off, that should solve your problems. Or, for $5 a month, you could become a premium member, which would also fix the issue and give you points towards reading ahead in your favorite series!"

    As for pricing... As I said, these translators need to make money, and they need to make enough to make it worth their time, while planning for a future that can change at any point. If you say the prices are steep, I don't disagree. But honestly, why do you need to read 50 chapters ahead TODAY? Why can't you wait a month? Because you're addicted? Okay, but that's something you should see a counselor about, not your "drug" dealer.

    Think of it like purchasing technology. Let's pick TV's.
    Today we have three options for you. First, we have this free TV, but the screen size and picture quality are mediocre. Also, it's bulky, so it takes up a lot of room. Your second option is a $200-$500 TV that has a decent setup. It's a good size with a somewhat impressive picture quality. It can vary according to what price you fall on, but the differences between them are small from one level to the next level up. However, even the lowest priced TV in this group is 5 times better than the free group. Your final option is the $1500+ option. This option is the best of the best. But, even though the price is 3-10 times more than the previous group, the quality and size isn't even twice that. This final group is for the fanatics, the otaku's, the impatient people who can't wait for a sale, or the addicts that always want to show off the best of the best.
    Now, here's the thing. This is a perfectly acceptable system. It rewards the mid-tier while not cutting out the lowest tier, and it takes advantage of the people who want to have the best of the best of the best. And, roughly speaking, that's the goal the sponsor program seems to aim for. It seems to be more beneficial to the mid-to-low tier subscribers, while allowing free accounts to still read, and taking advantage of people who just don't want to wait to read ahead.
  • @Sharlot Sorry for the slow response.  Timeliness is not one of my fortes, and I have too much shit to work on.  I'll try and get it out in the next few hours.


  • RWX said:
    @Sharlot Sorry for the slow response.  Timeliness is not one of my fortes, and I have too much shit to work on.  I'll try and get it out in the next few hours.


    np :)
  • edited October 2018
    edit: Read my next comment (2 down) to read a revised, more thought-out (relatively speaking..) opinion of mine on this.

    The only problem I have with the current paymodel, is that I don't see any value in the montly payments compared to just reading for free.

    I have no problem paying ~$12 for Netflix monthly, but at least I see an abundance of content with thousands of hours of entertainment. For $5 on WW, I can read ad-free and unlock a couple of chapters for a novel once a month.

    I get that translators need to make a living, but so do we all. I'd love to pay a bit to get some benefits and also support the excellent work these translators do, but the current paymodel just feels like shooting myself in the foot.

    I hope the translators can get all the funding and revenue to continue doing their work, but I (and most other people presumably) have to consider what is most economically reasonable. That's just common sense. I don't mind, that some people are fine with paying $1000+ for being 100 chapters or more in advance through-out the translation of a novel, but I ain't doing that.

    And I can't tell you how to run your business, but the business model is not in favor of someone like me.
  • It sounds like you're saying he should not have any free chapters and force people to pay $5 a month to read anything, lol. Cause that's the netflix model that you're talking about.
    His current model is actually quite in favor or someone like you. You get to read for free.
  • That's actually almost exactly what I'm saying Lozlo, thank you, I just figured out exactly how I feel about all of this:

    If they want me to pay, they could lock everything behind a $5 paywall. I'd pay it gladly, because I feel all these chapters are worth it.

    But because I have the option of getting every chapter free (with delay), I choose not to pay, since that is in favor of my economical situation. That's being frugal. The current options do not make me inclined to pay anything. The non-free portion of the business model isn't tailored to people like me.

    Get it?

    I wonder how succesful such a paywall would be. With an option like being able to choose where 80% of the monthly payment goes, to which translator(s). But again, I'm not knowledgable in many, if any, business-related issues. I'm only trying to describe why the current system feels nonsensical from my point of view.
  • edited October 2018
    Well, I have to wonder about the $5 paywall because it would only encourage piracy. So, while I understand your reasoning, I don't think it would play out the way you've imagined. Qidian is trying their version of a paywall and all that happened is Qidian Underground. Of course, Qidian is too greedy, so that's another story all together.
    I don't exactly disagree with you though. I read Upgrade Specialist here, among a few others, and I'm not even currently a subscriber either.
    $5 a chapter to read ahead, which maxes at 14 chapters and $70. Sorry, no thanks. For the Author of Upgrade Specialist, 14 chapters doesn't even finish the current fight sometimes. He really likes to make his fights drag on, much like Er Gen. I would never pay $5 to read an Er Gen chapter. There's very little content in an Er Gen chapter. But that's true for many authors.

    From a money standpoint, I do think it would make more sense to have, say... the first three chapters for five dollars just to get people spending a little, and then maybe two or three dollars for every chapter after that. Something like three dollars at first, but it steps down to two dollars at the high end. Maybe drop a quarter a chapter between groups.  However, I believe that's in the hands of the individual translators. I'm pretty sure they pick their prices and so on. So, while it's all very interesting, my understanding is that WuxiaWorlds model is, translators release here, the subscription is to support the site, have no ads, and get one chapter ahead in your favorite novel, and the translators create their own pricing.
    I could be completely wrong though.
  • edited October 2018
    5 dollars to the site... why wasnt this worked out with translators before hand?
  • edited October 2018
    @RWX is there a status update on this?

    I'm pretty disappointed with how things have been so far.

    Your first response dodged the problem entirely, instead accusing me of charging back. You didn't do a followup when I refuted this.

    After a long period of time, you again responded with a promise to follow up, which wasn't followed up.

    Are you waiting for the translation of AWE to finish before committing to a decision?


    I was discussing this again with a group of people, I mentioned the money model (Pay $200 to subscribe for 100 chapters ahead, next month to read 3 new chapters, pay another $200)

    Not going into what was said, but someone pointed out that most translators do a group funding scheme. In comparison, this is double dipping. Especially at those prices.
  • Hello all,

    I've been following this thread for a while now and can agree with @Sharlot - the current pricing model should be reworked.

    After sponsoring Deathblade with "A Will Eternal" for 1 month with 100$, I got 50 advanced chapters. I wanted it to be a one time thing to support Deathblade, honor his additional content on youtube and, ofc, to read the said 50 chapters.

    Nearing the end of my sponsoring period, I already knew: Next month will be hard, because there's no AWE for me with the advanced chapters gone.

    Long story short: It feels really unfair to lose the advanced chapters after reading them. For me it'll take about 25 days to read a new chapter. Next time I'll donate via patreon or some other service. Maybe without getting advanced chapters, but also without losing them again.

    Cheers.
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