What is the status of bluefire?

I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 
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  • Yes its been confirmed he was a paragon like half way through the last vol, and

    Spoiler

    I think its been confirmed by people who read ahead that he is now a fire sovergin
  • Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
  • Thanks. I understand now why Beirut showed him especial kindness or regard.
  • Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
  • abcabc
    edited October 2015
    Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    hes a sovereign when he entered planar war ...  the earth clone is the one who enter the planar war .. sovereigns can lend some power to their god clones according to machine translation correct me if im wrong!!
  • Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Boson also a Paragon Sovereign? 
  • abc said:

    Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    hes a sovereign when he entered planar war ...  the earth clone is the one who enter the planar war .. sovereigns can lend some power to their god clones according to machine translation correct me if im wrong!!
    No it was his fire clone that entered the planar war, he fused with the fire sovereign spark afterwards. Sovereigns aren't allowed to take part in the planar wars or help anyone, they just spectate
  • GLP95 said:

    abc said:

    Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    hes a sovereign when he entered planar war ...  the earth clone is the one who enter the planar war .. sovereigns can lend some power to their god clones according to machine translation correct me if im wrong!!
    No it was his fire clone that entered the planar war, he fused with the fire sovereign spark afterwards. Sovereigns aren't allowed to take part in the planar wars or help anyone, they just spectate




    Nope, as per Vol 20 Chapt 48. Bluefire was already a sovereign by then, but similar to Beirut (and later Linley), as a Yulan sovereign, he can't use his sovereign clone to go to the higher planes without risking Radiant making attempts on his life.

    Bluefire used his earth clone to go to the planar war. As a clone of a fire paragon sovereign , his earth clone was also strengthened to a level close to paragons and was also able to use fire abilities. So he could certainly fight Magnus to a standstill but cannot overpower him nor easily kill him with his earth clone. (and that's how Linley became the 4-way mutate ! )

  • GLP95 said:

    abc said:

    Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    hes a sovereign when he entered planar war ...  the earth clone is the one who enter the planar war .. sovereigns can lend some power to their god clones according to machine translation correct me if im wrong!!
    No it was his fire clone that entered the planar war, he fused with the fire sovereign spark afterwards. Sovereigns aren't allowed to take part in the planar wars or help anyone, they just spectate




    Nope, as per Vol 20 Chapt 48. Bluefire was already a sovereign by then, but similar to Beirut (and later Linley), as a Yulan sovereign, he can't use his sovereign clone to go to the higher planes without risking Radiant making attempts on his life.

    Bluefire used his earth clone to go to the planar war. As a clone of a fire paragon sovereign , his earth clone was also strengthened to a level close to paragons and was also able to use fire abilities. So he could certainly fight Magnus to a standstill but cannot overpower him nor easily kill him with his earth clone. (and that's how Linley became the 4-way mutate ! )

    He wasn't a Sovereign during the Planar Wars, but a Fire Paragon. Even if he went with the Earth clone and had some of the Will of his Fire Sovereign clone, he wouldn't be able to use Laws of Fire unless he was a Soul Mutate. Just read the novel, it's all in there.
  • edited October 2015
    Im pretty sure bluefire only fused with fire spark after the planar wars?I mean,he clearly used fire laws(at least i remember reading that and i dont think my memory is that bad lol) during the wars and he wouldnt have entered if he was already a sovereign back then...


    EDIT:

    Book 19 Chapter 39:

    "Teleportation?” Linley’s face changed. “No…speed! Astonishing speed, speed comparable to Bayer’s! For him to dare to dodge only at the last moment against Hemmers’ kick, his speed is absolutely…” This was the second time Linley had seen such terrifying speed."
    "Linley trained in the Elemental Laws of Fire, so he had some ideas. “Fire is different from wind. Bayer’s body became agile and illusory; although his speed was very fast, he was also as formless and invisible as the wind. Mr. Leylin is different though; watch, he’s just like the fire. Flames erupt violently and with energy! There’s nothing illusory about Mr. Bluefire’s speed; he explodes with it! His speed instantly explodes forth to a limit, making it so that even you and I feel as though he is teleporting.”

    Its clearly fire laws he's using here...
  • Lazergen said:

    GLP95 said:

    abc said:

    Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    hes a sovereign when he entered planar war ...  the earth clone is the one who enter the planar war .. sovereigns can lend some power to their god clones according to machine translation correct me if im wrong!!
    No it was his fire clone that entered the planar war, he fused with the fire sovereign spark afterwards. Sovereigns aren't allowed to take part in the planar wars or help anyone, they just spectate




    Nope, as per Vol 20 Chapt 48. Bluefire was already a sovereign by then, but similar to Beirut (and later Linley), as a Yulan sovereign, he can't use his sovereign clone to go to the higher planes without risking Radiant making attempts on his life.

    Bluefire used his earth clone to go to the planar war. As a clone of a fire paragon sovereign , his earth clone was also strengthened to a level close to paragons and was also able to use fire abilities. So he could certainly fight Magnus to a standstill but cannot overpower him nor easily kill him with his earth clone. (and that's how Linley became the 4-way mutate ! )

    He wasn't a Sovereign during the Planar Wars, but a Fire Paragon. Even if he went with the Earth clone and had some of the Will of his Fire Sovereign clone, he wouldn't be able to use Laws of Fire unless he was a Soul Mutate. Just read the novel, it's all in there.
    It's been confirmed, he was indeed a sovereign in the Planar War. Even his weakest clone was still at Paragon level.
  • From what I understood, Bluefire's clone in the Planar War could fight Paragons, but was slightly weaker so he couldn't defeat them. ;o
  • From what I understood, Bluefire's clone in the Planar War could fight Paragons, but was slightly weaker so he couldn't defeat them. ;o




    Well, he never fought at full power, just a spar with Linley, Hemmers, and a bit of power display to Magnus, not really enough to say that he is slightly weaker if he doesn't show everything he's got. Besides, no paragon can defeat another. At least that's what the novel tried to say. Paragons seem to not fight each other at all and the worst case scenario is just ditching the fight after a stalemate that is suppose to happen.
  • Lowlav said:

    Lazergen said:

    GLP95 said:

    abc said:

    Vexram said:

    Lowlav said:

    I'm interested in knowing just how powerful Leylin is or was, and where he is currently at. I have heard here and there that he is a Paragon? 

    he's a sovereign who sent his real body in the planar war which is why he was even with linley without any sovereign artifacts. for sovereigns (other than linley) the  will of the sovereign clone is significantly stronger than all other clones and even main body. their other non sovereign clones and main body do have will as well but it's so weak that they can easily be mistaken for a paragon it seems. 

    FYI bluefire is a paragon sovereign (not many of those around)
    actually according to the translations and knowledge of spoilers. leylin wasn't yet a sovereign during the planar war. leylin said himself that he became a fire paragon and gained a paragon's will. and since leylin fuses with a fire type sov spark. he can't have been a sovereign then. also, if leylin really was a sovereign then, he could have saved linley and killed magnus. instead he didn't do either.

    also i think there are a number of paragon sov's. bluefire, teresia, radiant asshole, fate dude, chief destruction sovereign. and thats just the ones i know about. the ratio of paragon sov's is actually quite high compared to paragons as whole. even if there are only 7 paragon sov's thats still about 10%, compared to the ratio of paragons as a whole, which is only like .000000000000000001%, that's a pretty high amount.
    hes a sovereign when he entered planar war ...  the earth clone is the one who enter the planar war .. sovereigns can lend some power to their god clones according to machine translation correct me if im wrong!!
    No it was his fire clone that entered the planar war, he fused with the fire sovereign spark afterwards. Sovereigns aren't allowed to take part in the planar wars or help anyone, they just spectate




    Nope, as per Vol 20 Chapt 48. Bluefire was already a sovereign by then, but similar to Beirut (and later Linley), as a Yulan sovereign, he can't use his sovereign clone to go to the higher planes without risking Radiant making attempts on his life.

    Bluefire used his earth clone to go to the planar war. As a clone of a fire paragon sovereign , his earth clone was also strengthened to a level close to paragons and was also able to use fire abilities. So he could certainly fight Magnus to a standstill but cannot overpower him nor easily kill him with his earth clone. (and that's how Linley became the 4-way mutate ! )

    He wasn't a Sovereign during the Planar Wars, but a Fire Paragon. Even if he went with the Earth clone and had some of the Will of his Fire Sovereign clone, he wouldn't be able to use Laws of Fire unless he was a Soul Mutate. Just read the novel, it's all in there.
    It's been confirmed, he was indeed a sovereign in the Planar War. Even his weakest clone was still at Paragon level.
    it was never stated that his earth clone was a paragon, it had a long way to go after all. even faith energy could only shorten that distance so much in such a short time.

    From what I understood, Bluefire's clone in the Planar War could fight Paragons, but was slightly weaker so he couldn't defeat them. ;o

    no bluefire's clone was on par with paragons. due to the way paragons are, it's very rare for there to be a big enough difference in power between them to actually determine a winner/loser, it usually boils down to who gets tired of fighting first. and since 'will' is pretty much the only thing that makes a paragon special, bluefire's clone was basically a sudo paragon, with power equal to them.
  • Vexram

    Key word you missed in your response to the first comment: lowlav said "level" which means that his abilities as you mention later is on par with paragons even if he isn't technically one.

    As for the second, that's basically what I said earlier in some more depth.
  • except that his clone wasn't at paragon level. although will makes up the majority of what makes a paragon a paragon, the fusion of 6 laws is the true 'essence' of a paragon, so his clone alone without his saint body is not a paragon level. (i think it was said that the one that fought was actually bluefire's saint body and he merely had his earth clone with him to provide his soul the power of a highgod, this is one of those extremely ambiguous things IET didn't bother to go into but from what i've understood, a saint original body's soul level is determined by the highest level clone inside)

    i know this contradicts my other post about this but i feel i needed to better explain that bluefire's earth clone is not a paragon and cannot challenge a paragon on it's own. although it has a fraction of will, without the power of all fused mysteries, it is no challenge for a true paragon. the only reason he could fight paragons on par was because he was using is paragon fire ability. something his earth clone cannot do on it's own. (non-mutate divine clones cannot share their different divine powers between them. an original body is needed to act as a medium. divine sparks reject all E/E that don't match them and the soul is part of the spark)
  • I never said the Earth clone was a paragon. However, as stated in the novel, it was weak enough to be mistaken for a Paragon. Sovereign will is enough to give just such a boost.
  • Well, Vexram, you're almost completely right except like lowlav just said, it was never referred to the earth clone as being a paragon. No one thought his earth clone alone was enough to be paragon, or at least I didn't. But if someone did, then that cleared their confusion.

    But on another note, Lowlav, He did indeed use his Saint body to utilize fire laws and fire power to fake his paragonhood and have his earth for highgod aura. His earth clone was not strenghtened to fight against others, he was using his Saint body the entire time. So he is technically at the legit paragon level by definition of max fused and will, just without an actual clone for it.
  • well he has become a sovereign and is now a part time translator as well, heed to the novelupdates site to learn more :P
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