if cultivators need nirvana pills to reach the nirvana stage where did the first ones come from?

the series so far has put a heavy emphasis on the fact that a cultivator needs hundreds of thousands of nirvana pills to reach nirvana stage and even more to go higher but only nirvana stage people can create nirvana pills if this is true how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage, following this rule it should be impossible if there were no nirvana practitioners to make the nirvana pills how did anyone manage to reach this stage in the first place. this entire stage is dependant on someone already being there giving you what you need to reach the stage yourself

Comments

  • you don't need nirvana pills.. you need the nirvana qi that exists naturally. Only reason pills are used is because its easy to get a lot of nirvana qi from a pill. Those who existed in the old times used the qi to breakthrough.. besides, LD and the others made nirvana pills without being a nirvana level warrior.
    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes
  • more specifically, you need large amounts of nirvana qi to advance into and within the nirvana realm. Nirvana qi can be extracted from the world and refined by a practitioner, but its efficiency leaves much to be desired. Moreover, nirvana qi by itself is very volatile (i.e. nirvana flames) and difficult to refine and absorb. In pill form, they're been refined into a more stable state that's easier to absorb and carry around. Like you said, the earlier practitioners would be the ones to refine the pills for the later generation.
  • aashish said:
    you don't need nirvana pills.. you need the nirvana qi that exists naturally. Only reason pills are used is because its easy to get a lot of nirvana qi from a pill. Those who existed in the old times used the qi to breakthrough.. besides, LD and the others made nirvana pills without being a nirvana level warrior.
    first off the amount of nirvana qi available naturally is minuscule making it near impossible to reach nirvana stage that way and even the attempt would take years that would mean the first spent decades on a path with was a literal shot in the dark plus the pills that LD and others made was when they were in the hundred realm warzone which is a broken dimension making it easier to make pills
    JohnDoe said:
    more specifically, you need large amounts of nirvana qi to advance into and within the nirvana realm. Nirvana qi can be extracted from the world and refined by a practitioner, but its efficiency leaves much to be desired. Moreover, nirvana qi by itself is very volatile (i.e. nirvana flames) and difficult to refine and absorb. In pill form, they're been refined into a more stable state that's easier to absorb and carry around. Like you said, the earlier practitioners would be the ones to refine the pills for the later generation.
    this still doesn't answer the question of how they got them the first time it tells you that not only is the amount of nirvana qi in the world tiny only someone in the nirvana stage can sense it even LD had to go to a broken dimension before he could sense it so if you need to be in that stage to sense nirvana qi then even if you ignore the problem of pills the first practitioners wouldn't have been able to sense the qi they need for the breakthrough. The story is going to alot of trouble to tell us that reaching the nirvana stage naturally without help is impossible which leaves the question how did the first cultivator do it? 
  • aashish said:
    you don't need nirvana pills.. you need the nirvana qi that exists naturally. Only reason pills are used is because its easy to get a lot of nirvana qi from a pill. Those who existed in the old times used the qi to breakthrough.. besides, LD and the others made nirvana pills without being a nirvana level warrior.
    first off the amount of nirvana qi available naturally is minuscule making it near impossible to reach nirvana stage that way and even the attempt would take years that would mean the first spent decades on a path with was a literal shot in the dark plus the pills that LD and others made was when they were in the hundred realm warzone which is a broken dimension making it easier to make pills
    JohnDoe said:
    more specifically, you need large amounts of nirvana qi to advance into and within the nirvana realm. Nirvana qi can be extracted from the world and refined by a practitioner, but its efficiency leaves much to be desired. Moreover, nirvana qi by itself is very volatile (i.e. nirvana flames) and difficult to refine and absorb. In pill form, they're been refined into a more stable state that's easier to absorb and carry around. Like you said, the earlier practitioners would be the ones to refine the pills for the later generation.
    this still doesn't answer the question of how they got them the first time it tells you that not only is the amount of nirvana qi in the world tiny only someone in the nirvana stage can sense it even LD had to go to a broken dimension before he could sense it so if you need to be in that stage to sense nirvana qi then even if you ignore the problem of pills the first practitioners wouldn't have been able to sense the qi they need for the breakthrough. The story is going to alot of trouble to tell us that reaching the nirvana stage naturally without help is impossible which leaves the question how did the first cultivator do it? 
    Jesus, you didn't even read my extrapolation. I said, Nirvana Qi can be extracted and refined into pills from the stage below Nirvana, even if the efficiency is low. You damned @$#! Each generation improves on the last because each successor generation is assisted by the seniors and start from a better place.
  • JohnDoe said:
    aashish said:
    you don't need nirvana pills.. you need the nirvana qi that exists naturally. Only reason pills are used is because its easy to get a lot of nirvana qi from a pill. Those who existed in the old times used the qi to breakthrough.. besides, LD and the others made nirvana pills without being a nirvana level warrior.
    first off the amount of nirvana qi available naturally is minuscule making it near impossible to reach nirvana stage that way and even the attempt would take years that would mean the first spent decades on a path with was a literal shot in the dark plus the pills that LD and others made was when they were in the hundred realm warzone which is a broken dimension making it easier to make pills
    JohnDoe said:
    more specifically, you need large amounts of nirvana qi to advance into and within the nirvana realm. Nirvana qi can be extracted from the world and refined by a practitioner, but its efficiency leaves much to be desired. Moreover, nirvana qi by itself is very volatile (i.e. nirvana flames) and difficult to refine and absorb. In pill form, they're been refined into a more stable state that's easier to absorb and carry around. Like you said, the earlier practitioners would be the ones to refine the pills for the later generation.
    this still doesn't answer the question of how they got them the first time it tells you that not only is the amount of nirvana qi in the world tiny only someone in the nirvana stage can sense it even LD had to go to a broken dimension before he could sense it so if you need to be in that stage to sense nirvana qi then even if you ignore the problem of pills the first practitioners wouldn't have been able to sense the qi they need for the breakthrough. The story is going to alot of trouble to tell us that reaching the nirvana stage naturally without help is impossible which leaves the question how did the first cultivator do it? 
    Jesus, you didn't even read my extrapolation. I said, Nirvana Qi can be extracted and refined into pills from the stage below Nirvana, even if the efficiency is low. You damned @$#! Each generation improves on the last because each successor generation is assisted by the seniors and start from a better place.
    i did read your explanation but you clearly missed my point the story tells us that only someone at the nirvana stage can sense nirvana qi even if someone at lower levels can make pills they need to know about the existence of nirvana qi first so if this is the case how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage if reaching that stage is completely reliant on a energy source that they would have been completely oblivious about at the time they couldn't have extracted nirvana qi into pills at the time because they wouldn't have known that was a thing and the story tells us that there isn't enough available to reach nirvana stage with regular cultivation so how could they have possibly reached the nirvana stage if none of the resources needed to even make the attempt existed. ignore the current systems in place for reaching the nirvana stage and ask yourself given the extreme conditions needed to reach this stage how could anyone possibly manage to do it blind no help, no instructions and no resources under these conditions we have a better chance of reaching the nirvana stage because at least we know what it is.
  • chicken or egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion. It is one of those things in life where you just accept that they exist..... ;)
  • guy who created post is obviously idiotic beyond belief.... sigh... 
    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes
  • Nibs said:
    chicken or egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion. It is one of those things in life where you just accept that they exist..... ;)
    this isn't a chicken or egg problem eggs pre-exist chickens this is an impossible problem because to reach this stage you need someone already at this stage. everyone is calling me stupid but completely missing the point of this post so here is some fact as stated in the story 
    1. reaching the nirvana stage is only possible through the use of nirvana qi
    2. only someone at the nirvana stage can sense nirvana qi
    3. only someone at the nirvana stage can make nirvana pills
    4. the realm of the hundred cities war is broken and unstable which is why people below the nirvana stage can ignore points 2 and 3 while in this realm they can't do it otherwise
    5. the average minimum number of pills needed to reach nirvana stage is 200000
    6. in the hundred cities realm they average 3-5 pills daily which means reaching 200000 would take 100 years per person
    7. the lin clan have a nirvana stage practitioner but despite this they lack the resources to cultivate another which means you need multiple nirvana stage practitioners to provide enough resources for the next generation
    so given all this my question is how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage? they can't have extracted nirvana qi from the heavens and earth because they wouldn't have been able to find it, they can't have used nirvana pills because there wouldn't have been any and even if they did manage to reach this stage using only naturally available nirvana qi it would mean they spent over 100 years on a cultivation path with no idea if it would work or not.
    reaching the nirvana stage is completely reliant on already having someone at the stage itself giving you the resources to reach it yourself so if no-one was at the stage at the beginning then no-one should have been able to reach the stage because none of the resources needed would have been available

    to give you an example imagine you are standing in front of a cliff there is no way to climb the cliff, there is no path to the top of the cliff, the only way you can get up is if someone at the top drops a rope down for you to climb up, there is no other way anyone else can get to the top, which gives the question of if no-one can climb the cliff unless someone else throws down a rope how did the first person get up to throw the rope down?
  • If i were to guess i'd say they are currently living in a type of desolate era caused by the calamity they spoke of in the latest translation. Nirvana Qi might have been much more abundant at that time which explains why there are so few super experts now compared to the ancient times.
  • Evaansan said:
    If i were to guess i'd say they are currently living in a type of desolate era caused by the calamity they spoke of in the latest translation. Nirvana Qi might have been much more abundant at that time which explains why there are so few super experts now compared to the ancient times.
    now that is a possible explanation i can accept there is no proof but the logic is sound and if the amount of nirvana qi was rich enough it would explain how they could sense it at lower levels meaning there was no difference between cultivating the lower stages and the nirvana stage there was no need for the pills just to make the attempt and there purpose was simlilar to pure yuan pills they could be used for cultivation but where more used as currency and as the amount of nirvana qi started to thin out the cultivators were forced to use the pills more for cultivation than just as currency and eventually lower levels lost the ability to sense it entirely resulting in the current system. that is a reasonable explanation
  • Nibs said:
    chicken or egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion. It is one of those things in life where you just accept that they exist..... ;)
    this isn't a chicken or egg problem eggs pre-exist chickens this is an impossible problem because to reach this stage you need someone already at this stage. everyone is calling me stupid but completely missing the point of this post so here is some fact as stated in the story 
    1. reaching the nirvana stage is only possible through the use of nirvana qi
    2. only someone at the nirvana stage can sense nirvana qi
    3. only someone at the nirvana stage can make nirvana pills
    4. the realm of the hundred cities war is broken and unstable which is why people below the nirvana stage can ignore points 2 and 3 while in this realm they can't do it otherwise
    5. the average minimum number of pills needed to reach nirvana stage is 200000
    6. in the hundred cities realm they average 3-5 pills daily which means reaching 200000 would take 100 years per person
    7. the lin clan have a nirvana stage practitioner but despite this they lack the resources to cultivate another which means you need multiple nirvana stage practitioners to provide enough resources for the next generation
    so given all this my question is how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage? they can't have extracted nirvana qi from the heavens and earth because they wouldn't have been able to find it, they can't have used nirvana pills because there wouldn't have been any and even if they did manage to reach this stage using only naturally available nirvana qi it would mean they spent over 100 years on a cultivation path with no idea if it would work or not.
    reaching the nirvana stage is completely reliant on already having someone at the stage itself giving you the resources to reach it yourself so if no-one was at the stage at the beginning then no-one should have been able to reach the stage because none of the resources needed would have been available

    to give you an example imagine you are standing in front of a cliff there is no way to climb the cliff, there is no path to the top of the cliff, the only way you can get up is if someone at the top drops a rope down for you to climb up, there is no other way anyone else can get to the top, which gives the question of if no-one can climb the cliff unless someone else throws down a rope how did the first person get up to throw the rope down?
    I am fully aware of your question and the premise behind it. I was not one of the ppl that joined in to call your intelligence into question. However, your arguments in your repost did not change the original premise of the initial post. Thus I maintain my current statement: 'Chicken of Egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion'

    Hell, I'll even expound upon this statement a little for you since you missed the point I was trying to succinctly deliver: These type of arguments (chicken or egg first) always lead to a conversation that presents a negative bent. Hence others calling your intelligence into question, and you attempting to defend yourself through clarification. There is never a true winner in the argument, ppl just leave the conversation more dissatisfied, confused, or even upset prior to entering the conversation. 

    But in the spirit of strife, when you are attempting to make an argument, facts needs to be referenced or sourced: For example: In your first point about reaching Nirvana is only possible...... I am and your readers are unaware of where you get this information, what chapter/s did you pull this information from, what paragraph, what author, etc..... See what was done there? Without this information, I can just assume that your argument is based on your convenient imagination to prove a point, taken from another story, or what ever other situation that can be contrived to discredit your argument.

    Leading me back to the original point: It is one of those things in life you just accept they exist ;)
    Also it is a bloody fictional story, thus over analysis of such ruins the fun behind the art. 
  • Nibs said:
    Nibs said:
    chicken or egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion. It is one of those things in life where you just accept that they exist..... ;)
    this isn't a chicken or egg problem eggs pre-exist chickens this is an impossible problem because to reach this stage you need someone already at this stage. everyone is calling me stupid but completely missing the point of this post so here is some fact as stated in the story 
    1. reaching the nirvana stage is only possible through the use of nirvana qi
    2. only someone at the nirvana stage can sense nirvana qi
    3. only someone at the nirvana stage can make nirvana pills
    4. the realm of the hundred cities war is broken and unstable which is why people below the nirvana stage can ignore points 2 and 3 while in this realm they can't do it otherwise
    5. the average minimum number of pills needed to reach nirvana stage is 200000
    6. in the hundred cities realm they average 3-5 pills daily which means reaching 200000 would take 100 years per person
    7. the lin clan have a nirvana stage practitioner but despite this they lack the resources to cultivate another which means you need multiple nirvana stage practitioners to provide enough resources for the next generation
    so given all this my question is how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage? they can't have extracted nirvana qi from the heavens and earth because they wouldn't have been able to find it, they can't have used nirvana pills because there wouldn't have been any and even if they did manage to reach this stage using only naturally available nirvana qi it would mean they spent over 100 years on a cultivation path with no idea if it would work or not.
    reaching the nirvana stage is completely reliant on already having someone at the stage itself giving you the resources to reach it yourself so if no-one was at the stage at the beginning then no-one should have been able to reach the stage because none of the resources needed would have been available

    to give you an example imagine you are standing in front of a cliff there is no way to climb the cliff, there is no path to the top of the cliff, the only way you can get up is if someone at the top drops a rope down for you to climb up, there is no other way anyone else can get to the top, which gives the question of if no-one can climb the cliff unless someone else throws down a rope how did the first person get up to throw the rope down?
    I am fully aware of your question and the premise behind it. I was not one of the ppl that joined in to call your intelligence into question. However, your arguments in your repost did not change the original premise of the initial post. Thus I maintain my current statement: 'Chicken of Egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion'

    Hell, I'll even expound upon this statement a little for you since you missed the point I was trying to succinctly deliver: These type of arguments (chicken or egg first) always lead to a conversation that presents a negative bent. Hence others calling your intelligence into question, and you attempting to defend yourself through clarification. There is never a true winner in the argument, ppl just leave the conversation more dissatisfied, confused, or even upset prior to entering the conversation. 

    But in the spirit of strife, when you are attempting to make an argument, facts needs to be referenced or sourced: For example: In your first point about reaching Nirvana is only possible...... I am and your readers are unaware of where you get this information, what chapter/s did you pull this information from, what paragraph, what author, etc..... See what was done there? Without this information, I can just assume that your argument is based on your convenient imagination to prove a point, taken from another story, or what ever other situation that can be contrived to discredit your argument.

    Leading me back to the original point: It is one of those things in life you just accept they exist ;)
    Also it is a bloody fictional story, thus over analysis of such ruins the fun behind the art. 
    once again this is not a chicken and egg problem chickens are birds, birds evolved from reptiles reptiles evolved from fish and so on, since reptiles lay eggs birds or in this case chickens lay eggs while the argument of which came first is still ongoing we at least know their origin and how they came to be. we do not have this information for the nirvana stage from the story stand point the nirvana stage just poofed into existence along with all the current systems needed to reach it. as for my sources i started this thread under the assumption that people answering had read the story and i wouldn't have to reference these facts as they are mentioned multiple times though several chapters, literally every time the story mentions the desperate need to collect nirvana pills or breaking through to the nirvana stage it repeats the strict conditions needed to do it, and  yes this is a fictional story but what i am pointing out is a plot hole, an error in writing that is either a mistake on the authors part or a lead up to something that has yet to appear and finally if you don't like people over analysing the story then why are you in the forums which are full of people over analysing the stories and if such over analysis ruins the fun behind the art why are there classes dedicated to the analysis of literature and the subtleties within a story. The only thing you have brought to this thread is a sense of how pointless you feel the forums are i asked the question because i want an answer and if i get an answer i don't agree with i will question that as well that is the point of the forums i don't care about whether it ruins it for you if you don't want to hear peoples opinions and questions about the story don't read the forums if my question is as pointless as you say and others agree no one will respond and the thread will die but responding just to say my question is pointless will just keep the thread active and at the top of the page longer
  • So...going back to the original discussion before the chicken-egg thing...


    I just realized what should've been my first reaction to your question. LD can ignore the rules because he's MC. More specifically, no rule is ever absolute, so I imagine there are exceptions for the top geniuses. And you also forgot the existence of half-step/peak stage cultivation. Like any chinese novel, a genius standing in the gap between two realms can use some of the abilities inherent to the higher realm, even if only at a higher price. For example. CF from MGA was able to use advanced spirit formation techniques far beyond his cultivation because of his superior perception/aptitude. I imagine that there must have been other top-tier geniuses before LD that paved the way.
  • JohnDoe said:
    So...going back to the original discussion before the chicken-egg thing...


    I just realized what should've been my first reaction to your question. LD can ignore the rules because he's MC. More specifically, no rule is ever absolute, so I imagine there are exceptions for the top geniuses. And you also forgot the existence of half-step/peak stage cultivation. Like any chinese novel, a genius standing in the gap between two realms can use some of the abilities inherent to the higher realm, even if only at a higher price. For example. CF from MGA was able to use advanced spirit formation techniques far beyond his cultivation because of his superior perception/aptitude. I imagine that there must have been other top-tier geniuses before LD that paved the way.
    my question isn't about the current problem with the nirvana stage i am questioning it's origin and while half-step cultivators can use some of the abilities of the next stage that is under the condition that they are aware of that stage and are going in that direction otherwise they are stuck at the peak of their current stage for example in stellar transformations qin yu was stuck at the sun stage for centuries with no progress until he created the dark star stage then his cultivation started advancing again the early cultivators would have had the same problem half-step nirvana stage would only come after the discovery of the nirvana stage it still doesn't explain how the nirvana stage was discovered given how excessively difficult it is to reach the best theory i have heard so far is evaansan's about them being in a desolate era with significantly less nirvana qi than was available in the past which means reaching the nirvana stage was easier in the past but this is just a theory in reality if reaching the nirvana stage had always been the kind of struggle it currently is then it would never have been created because reaching it the first time would have been impossible and if no one ever reaches the nirvana stage then no one is capable of generating the resources needed to reach the nirvana stage which means no one ever reaches the nirvana stage in a never ending loop of impossibility the only explanations are either the desolate era theory or someone from a higher plane (the great ruler plane for example) met with the early cultivators and taught them how to reach the next stage and helped them make the systems necessary for future generations. my point being the nirvana stage can not have occurred naturally as it has been described there has to have been either some form of interference or change leading into current circumstances otherwise it is impossible for someone to have blindly invented it based on how it has been explained to us because even if some genius somehow made it to the peak manifestation stage before reaching 20 it would still take them an additional 100 years to reach nirvana stage plus however many years they wasted on trial and error before finding the right path assuming nirvana stage is the only path in this plane.
  • There is a simple explanation to your question : elixirs. 
    The world is vast so there probably is a plant that can absorb Nirvana qi, or a mysterious place where Nirvana qi gather into a pool or another natural treasure full of Nirvana qi (there is stones with Yuan power so why not Nirvana qi?) . In ancient time people had to find such things to advance to Nirvana stage. After that the Nirvana stage practitioners began to refine Nirvana pills to help their disciples reach Nirvana stage because it is easier than finding a rare treasure. 

    Or maybe some people are sensitive about Nirvana qi and can sense it even if they are not at the Nirvana stage. You only have to have a singularity happen once and the Nirvana stage become accessible. 
  • Kvothe001 said:
    There is a simple explanation to your question : elixirs. 
    The world is vast so there probably is a plant that can absorb Nirvana qi, or a mysterious place where Nirvana qi gather into a pool or another natural treasure full of Nirvana qi (there is stones with Yuan power so why not Nirvana qi?) . In ancient time people had to find such things to advance to Nirvana stage. After that the Nirvana stage practitioners began to refine Nirvana pills to help their disciples reach Nirvana stage because it is easier than finding a rare treasure. 

    Or maybe some people are sensitive about Nirvana qi and can sense it even if they are not at the Nirvana stage. You only have to have a singularity happen once and the Nirvana stage become accessible. 
    elixirs is another possibility but brings an entirely different set of problems for example the lowest grade of elixirs only help during body tempering elixirs for gathering yin and yang energy are hard to come by and only exist in places rich in the necessary element such as the volcano for yang and some where equally cold for yin as such a nirvana qi based elixir would either have to grow in a place rich in nirvana qi or take a really long time to grow which would also make them extremely rare, then there is the added problem that these types of elixirs tend to be guarded by powerful demonic beasts like the ape guarding the thousand beast fruit and the panthers guarding the yuan stone ore vein and the more powerful the elixir the more powerful the guardian. another problem with the nirvana stage is that it needs multiple people at that stage to provide for the next generation getting 1 person to the nirvana stage through an elixir may enlighten the rest of the world to the next step but reaching it would still be equally impossible as 1 nirvana stage practitioner alone cannot provide enough resources to raise another otherwise small clans with a nirvana stage practitioner such as the lin clan wouldn't be so desperate to get a junior member into the super sects from what i can tell in order to raise the next generation to the nirvana stage requires a minimum of tens of nirvana stage practitioners if not hundreds so having one or two reach the nirvana stage through elixirs won't help other achieve the same and would result  in the discovery of the stage but it would eventually be considered a legendary stage considered extinct or made up similar to levels 10-13 of the qi consolidation stage as well as the allheaven realm in ISSH and that is the my main issue with this stage which is that in order for it to have been passed down after it's initial discovery and spread out as far as it has hundreds if not thousands would have to have reached this stage in the same generation and as far as i can tell there is no viable way for this to have happened with the exception of the 2 possible theories mentioned early which are the desolate era theory (which claims that before the catastrophe that destroyed the ancient sects nirvana qi was much more abundant that it is now meaning that the junior generations not only could easily sense nirvana qi they didn't need nirvana pills to make the attempt and instead nirvana pills were originally used as currency similar to pure yuan pills and it wasn't until after the catastrophe and the amount of nirvana qi in the world dropped to a point where lower levels lost the ability to sense it that practitioners were forced to use nirvana pills just to make the attempt regardless of success) and the higher power/realm theory (since this story shares a universe with BTTH and TGR it is possible that someone much higher than the manifestation stage equivalent came down and raised the required numbers up to the nirvana stage and taught them the systems currently being used) elixirs is a good idea but the conditions needed for a nirvana qi elixir to develop would be even more extreme than the conditions needed to reach the nirvana stage itself.
  • I have an idea. Just wait for the translation to go onward. if there exist an answer then it's going to be in the novel. And if you impatient than find a raw source and read through google translator.
    As for my opinion on the qestion, i think that Kvothe001 and Evaansan right in some terms.
    Evaansan said that they living in a kind of desolate era because of the calamity. I think that is a plausible thing because just a few individual (like Qing Zhi) was able to survive so there is a litle knowled of it.
    And that's when i think that Kvothe001 is right. Because if they living in a desolate era than wo know how majestic was the past. What if the elixirs and natural resources that we saw until now just some third rate staff that remain? Or there is a possibility that this whole speculation is wrong from the beginning, but who cares for that? There's so much mystery that the author is not going to answer straightforward every single thing. And that is good because the reader is able to imagine his own answer a enjoy more the novel.
    So my final comment is that you use your own head and start think for your own answer. That way you not include yourself and others into an unnecessary and pintles war of worlds. And its more fun in that way.
  • Shuya said:
    I have an idea. Just wait for the translation to go onward. if there exist an answer then it's going to be in the novel. And if you impatient than find a raw source and read through google translator.
    As for my opinion on the qestion, i think that Kvothe001 and Evaansan right in some terms.
    Evaansan said that they living in a kind of desolate era because of the calamity. I think that is a plausible thing because just a few individual (like Qing Zhi) was able to survive so there is a litle knowled of it.
    And that's when i think that Kvothe001 is right. Because if they living in a desolate era than wo know how majestic was the past. What if the elixirs and natural resources that we saw until now just some third rate staff that remain? Or there is a possibility that this whole speculation is wrong from the beginning, but who cares for that? There's so much mystery that the author is not going to answer straightforward every single thing. And that is good because the reader is able to imagine his own answer a enjoy more the novel.
    So my final comment is that you use your own head and start think for your own answer. That way you not include yourself and others into an unnecessary and pintles war of worlds. And its more fun in that way.
    that's assuming that the author gives an answer as far as i'm aware the novel is finished we are just waiting for translations but if you read earlier replies not everyone noticed the flaw in the author cultivation path for this novel so it is entirely possible that this won't get an answer and will remain an obscure plot hole most people wouldn't even notice unless you actually stop to give it some thought and even if an answer is given later i would rather have it now since i actually bothered to ask, preferably while the nirvana stage is still relevant to the story than later when it would just be considered background information with minor plot relevance.
  • edited January 2017
    I asked a friend who read through the novel in chinese. He told me that in the later part of the story, there going to be an ore which is containing nirvana qi, just like the yang yuan stone in the erly part of the novel. So i think that this is an answer. And please do not ask how they processed the ore.


  • so there is an answer if the ore is used up upon reaching the nirvana stage then the actual answer is similar to the desolate era theory except it was the nirvana qi ore that was abundant and has thus started to run out resulting in the current systems plot hole fixed
  • Nibs said:
    chicken or egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion. It is one of those things in life where you just accept that they exist..... ;)
    this isn't a chicken or egg problem eggs pre-exist chickens this is an impossible problem because to reach this stage you need someone already at this stage. everyone is calling me stupid but completely missing the point of this post so here is some fact as stated in the story 
    1. reaching the nirvana stage is only possible through the use of nirvana qi
    2. only someone at the nirvana stage can sense nirvana qi
    3. only someone at the nirvana stage can make nirvana pills
    4. the realm of the hundred cities war is broken and unstable which is why people below the nirvana stage can ignore points 2 and 3 while in this realm they can't do it otherwise
    5. the average minimum number of pills needed to reach nirvana stage is 200000
    6. in the hundred cities realm they average 3-5 pills daily which means reaching 200000 would take 100 years per person
    7. the lin clan have a nirvana stage practitioner but despite this they lack the resources to cultivate another which means you need multiple nirvana stage practitioners to provide enough resources for the next generation
    so given all this my question is how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage? they can't have extracted nirvana qi from the heavens and earth because they wouldn't have been able to find it, they can't have used nirvana pills because there wouldn't have been any and even if they did manage to reach this stage using only naturally available nirvana qi it would mean they spent over 100 years on a cultivation path with no idea if it would work or not.
    reaching the nirvana stage is completely reliant on already having someone at the stage itself giving you the resources to reach it yourself so if no-one was at the stage at the beginning then no-one should have been able to reach the stage because none of the resources needed would have been available

    to give you an example imagine you are standing in front of a cliff there is no way to climb the cliff, there is no path to the top of the cliff, the only way you can get up is if someone at the top drops a rope down for you to climb up, there is no other way anyone else can get to the top, which gives the question of if no-one can climb the cliff unless someone else throws down a rope how did the first person get up to throw the rope down?
    Point 2 and 3 are wrong.
    and dont think the world is only as small as the novel you read until newest chapter. Actually the world is big and nirvana level is just a simple level..
  • Nibs said:
    chicken or egg first arguments never lead to a satisfying conclusion. It is one of those things in life where you just accept that they exist..... ;)
    this isn't a chicken or egg problem eggs pre-exist chickens this is an impossible problem because to reach this stage you need someone already at this stage. everyone is calling me stupid but completely missing the point of this post so here is some fact as stated in the story 
    1. reaching the nirvana stage is only possible through the use of nirvana qi
    2. only someone at the nirvana stage can sense nirvana qi
    3. only someone at the nirvana stage can make nirvana pills
    4. the realm of the hundred cities war is broken and unstable which is why people below the nirvana stage can ignore points 2 and 3 while in this realm they can't do it otherwise
    5. the average minimum number of pills needed to reach nirvana stage is 200000
    6. in the hundred cities realm they average 3-5 pills daily which means reaching 200000 would take 100 years per person
    7. the lin clan have a nirvana stage practitioner but despite this they lack the resources to cultivate another which means you need multiple nirvana stage practitioners to provide enough resources for the next generation
    so given all this my question is how did the first cultivator reach the nirvana stage? they can't have extracted nirvana qi from the heavens and earth because they wouldn't have been able to find it, they can't have used nirvana pills because there wouldn't have been any and even if they did manage to reach this stage using only naturally available nirvana qi it would mean they spent over 100 years on a cultivation path with no idea if it would work or not.
    reaching the nirvana stage is completely reliant on already having someone at the stage itself giving you the resources to reach it yourself so if no-one was at the stage at the beginning then no-one should have been able to reach the stage because none of the resources needed would have been available

    to give you an example imagine you are standing in front of a cliff there is no way to climb the cliff, there is no path to the top of the cliff, the only way you can get up is if someone at the top drops a rope down for you to climb up, there is no other way anyone else can get to the top, which gives the question of if no-one can climb the cliff unless someone else throws down a rope how did the first person get up to throw the rope down?
    Point 2 and 3 are wrong.
    and dont think the world is only as small as the novel you read until newest chapter. Actually the world is big and nirvana level is just a simple level..
    the mystery has already been solved why comment on a finished topic also points 2 and 3 aren't wrong we were told these facts several times in the story that's why the hundred empire war is such a big thing it takes place in a broken dimension that allows people below the nirvana stage to sense and refine nirvana qi into nirvana pills. literally the first thing lin dong commented on when he entered the hundred empire wars was "so this is nirvana qi" because he could sense it, outside that realm none of them could. and while nirvana qi is considered just a simple level in the current point of the story universe my point is still valid. with the way the nirvana stage has been described it would have been impossible to discover naturally without some form of external help providing the required nirvana qi to make the break through and as has been said earlier in the ancient past the first cultivators probably used nirvana qi ore in order to make the break through then as the ore became more rare they setup the current systems that are in place so the next generation could make the attempt simply put the nirvana stage is to hard to reach without help if all the cultivators capable of making nirvana qi pills were to disappear along with all the extra nirvana pills leaving none for the next generation the stage would vanish because no one would be able to reach it. with that this topic is finished anyone commenting after this point is just beating a dead horse.
  • Sorry i didn't see the topic is finished
    anyway just give some extra information
    there are immortal yuan trees that give nirvana qi and also life qi
    and also great yan empire is a low level empire in mysterious eastern region and hundred empire war is still on MER, so it is not different dimension, just different place, you know.. kinda warp and teleport thing.
    it's like you are somewhere in the urban area suddenly you warped out to kind of big city or metropolitan area.. lol
  • edited February 2017
    While this is a different approach to your question, I was thinking that most xianxia or wuxia could be similar to the novel "The Nine Cauldrons." While this may be a spoiler for a few of you (I apologize but I thought it was necessary for this thread), the MC of this novel creates his own cultivation path. My guess is that some genius may at the beginning of this world started to sense qi and then create cultivation realms and levels before passing it down to his acquaintances. Basically this super genius felt his may around cultivation blindly before he had later generations refined it into the cultivation path we see in lin dong's time.

    And the nirvana qi was much richer while at the same time the genius only created the nirvana stage after he felt that he had refined enough nirvana qi.
  • or because the author decided that it will be like this 
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