Becoming Deity before reaching Saint level?

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  • Ok, just did some more research, and I found something that illustrates my point. This is an excerpt from book 12 ch 2:

    But I was never able to sense the presence of the divine spark. Only roughly two years after you left, when I reached the Grand Magus Saint level and my soul began to change, did I clearly begin to sense the existence of the divine spark. At that time, I totally understood.”

    Linley nodded. “Right. Only after reaching the Saint-level can one’s soul truly be able to fuse with a divine spark.”


    Right here is the part when it is revealed that Delia received some sort of special stone that is actually a demigod spark from Beirut. It is basically set in stone as a rule that one is required to be a saint for godhood as it is explicitly mentioned here. And again the reason mentioned is the soul, Delia claims not to even notice anything from the spark until sainthood where her soul transformed, so I was indeed right. And Linley just confirms it. The soul must be in a definitive form to interact with a spark. And this form is apparently only attainable upon sainthood. Though the point about how it appears to only transform when one reaches grand magus level does raise the question of how it would work with warriors. Well, it is no surprise that the author often contradicts, forgets, and is still making up his mind about the laws of the universe. You may as well ask how it is possible for warriors like Fain and Cesar to reach prime Saint as fast as magis like Desri. I believe the author intends as the final statment to be that warriors and magi are no different from each other. The rules are here, it makes the most sense to assume that warriors also get the transformation and to disregard the contradiction that Linley didn't. even if he didn't say so in the beginning, he means it in the end. 

  • Ok, just did some more research, and I found something that illustrates my point. This is an excerpt from book 12 ch 2:

    But I was never able to sense the presence of the divine spark. Only roughly two years after you left, when I reached the Grand Magus Saint level and my soul began to change, did I clearly begin to sense the existence of the divine spark. At that time, I totally understood.”

    Linley nodded. “Right. Only after reaching the Saint-level can one’s soul truly be able to fuse with a divine spark.”


    Right here is the part when it is revealed that Delia received some sort of special stone that is actually a demigod spark from Beirut. It is basically set in stone as a rule that one is required to be a saint for godhood as it is explicitly mentioned here. And again the reason mentioned is the soul, Delia claims not to even notice anything from the spark until sainthood where her soul transformed, so I was indeed right. And Linley just confirms it. The soul must be in a definitive form to interact with a spark. And this form is apparently only attainable upon sainthood. Though the point about how it appears to only transform when one reaches grand magus level does raise the question of how it would work with warriors. Well, it is no surprise that the author often contradicts, forgets, and is still making up his mind about the laws of the universe. You may as well ask how it is possible for warriors like Fain and Cesar to reach prime Saint as fast as magis like Desri. I believe the author intends as the final statment to be that warriors and magi are no different from each other. The rules are here, it makes the most sense to assume that warriors also get the transformation and to disregard the contradiction that Linley didn't. even if he didn't say so in the beginning, he means it in the end. 

    No, it means Delia can't use and fuse spark without being a Saint. Who even cares about the spark?

    1. Example above and Delia's progress back then clearly shows, that with insight into Laws, one's soul and power would grow on its own. So nope, not possible to get enough insight to ascend to Demigod without getting strengthened enough to become a Saint.

    2. Remember the part about "everyone ascends by comprehending laws, both warriors and magi" and "magi spells are simply butchered laws for people to use". It's the same power used in a different way. You didn't really make any big relevation in your last sentences...

    3. "Fain and Cesar to reach prime Saint as fast as magis like Desri." Normally. By comprehending the law, just like Magis. Magis are stronger because they are have stronger spirits. That doesn't mean the time used to strengthen their spirit can't be used by warriors to keep on training their bodies and maybe gaining some insight into the Law. After reaching Saint there is no difference between Warrior and Magi, so the way they ascended to Saint doesn't really matter in a big scheme of things. Linley's insight into Throbbing Pulse of the World was because of his warrior sword training, not his magi skills. I guess stronger spiritual sense etc helped a lot but still, warriors are weaker because they are using their own power instead of butchered laws to channel their power instead of strengthening their own bodies/comprehending laws. It's a shortcut that makes them stronger, but in the long run it doesn't matter.
  • Duniak said:
    Ok, just did some more research, and I found something that illustrates my point. This is an excerpt from book 12 ch 2:

    But I was never able to sense the presence of the divine spark. Only roughly two years after you left, when I reached the Grand Magus Saint level and my soul began to change, did I clearly begin to sense the existence of the divine spark. At that time, I totally understood.”

    Linley nodded. “Right. Only after reaching the Saint-level can one’s soul truly be able to fuse with a divine spark.”


    Right here is the part when it is revealed that Delia received some sort of special stone that is actually a demigod spark from Beirut. It is basically set in stone as a rule that one is required to be a saint for godhood as it is explicitly mentioned here. And again the reason mentioned is the soul, Delia claims not to even notice anything from the spark until sainthood where her soul transformed, so I was indeed right. And Linley just confirms it. The soul must be in a definitive form to interact with a spark. And this form is apparently only attainable upon sainthood. Though the point about how it appears to only transform when one reaches grand magus level does raise the question of how it would work with warriors. Well, it is no surprise that the author often contradicts, forgets, and is still making up his mind about the laws of the universe. You may as well ask how it is possible for warriors like Fain and Cesar to reach prime Saint as fast as magis like Desri. I believe the author intends as the final statment to be that warriors and magi are no different from each other. The rules are here, it makes the most sense to assume that warriors also get the transformation and to disregard the contradiction that Linley didn't. even if he didn't say so in the beginning, he means it in the end. 

    No, it means Delia can't use and fuse spark without being a Saint. Who even cares about the spark?

    1. Example above and Delia's progress back then clearly shows, that with insight into Laws, one's soul and power would grow on its own. So nope, not possible to get enough insight to ascend to Demigod without getting strengthened enough to become a Saint.

    2. Remember the part about "everyone ascends by comprehending laws, both warriors and magi" and "magi spells are simply butchered laws for people to use". It's the same power used in a different way. You didn't really make any big relevation in your last sentences...

    3. "Fain and Cesar to reach prime Saint as fast as magis like Desri." Normally. By comprehending the law, just like Magis. Magis are stronger because they are have stronger spirits. That doesn't mean the time used to strengthen their spirit can't be used by warriors to keep on training their bodies and maybe gaining some insight into the Law. After reaching Saint there is no difference between Warrior and Magi, so the way they ascended to Saint doesn't really matter in a big scheme of things. Linley's insight into Throbbing Pulse of the World was because of his warrior sword training, not his magi skills. I guess stronger spiritual sense etc helped a lot but still, warriors are weaker because they are using their own power instead of butchered laws to channel their power instead of strengthening their own bodies/comprehending laws. It's a shortcut that makes them stronger, but in the long run it doesn't matter.
    Yeah, she can't use the spark because she isn't a saint, but more specifically the transformed soul was needed. Again, she and Linley did not simply say "you need to be a saint", they said the "soul of a saint is required" and we know that the soul transform upon sainthood. So you aren't really disagreeing with me here if that's your intention but I was just specifying what the author is implying as the real condition to godhood. And the spark is being used as my example to prove what is necessary for godhood as is the purpose of this thread. 

    1. Well actually Delia gained soul strength through the special stone not gaining insights. Beside I highly doubt gaining insights from a spark and not through yourself really gives you much benefits at all. But you may be right about the part where you gained soul strength for gaining insights, I'll have to check up on that more just to make sure, but it's just more reason why a non saint can't go to deityhood without entering sainthood first. 

    2. While both warriors and magis both ascend through the same method, they are clearly different. Saint magis still chant and it's very obvious. Besides that, as naofumishield pointed out Linley upon entering sainthood as a warrior did not have a transformed soul but he and his wife did upon doing so as a Mage. And that's a rather big difference as well. What I was going with this is that the only thing we have confirmed so far is that the special transformed soul of saints is required to fuse with a spark to become a deity, but if warriors don't get that, then how are they able to ascend is what naofumishield asked, which is a valid point. Warriors and magis have clear distinctions, especially in the beginning, but author just decided to converge the two paths. So perhaps this was one of the things that wasn't meant to be different at all is what I'm saying. 

    3. You happen to be quite wrong in the few areas here. Whether you are a warrior or a Mage does play a huge role while still in sainthood, and though not as much, even in deityhood as well.  I said this earlier, but yeah saint magis chant and that's so obvious. Magis have a stronger soul, which is directly related to training speed. The stronger the soul, the easier it is to tune in with nature and get insights, so naturally magis saints should be better and faster than warriors at the laws. Strenghtening the body and gathering qi has its limits and doing so does not necessarily mean you'll gain soul strength or insights. Getting insights into the laws is harder for warriors because of their natural less affinity for sensing the laws and weaker souls. It doesn't make sense if the likes of Fain reached prime saint as fast as Desri. And Linley's insight with earth laws is directly related to the fact that he has exceptional affinity with earth to gather mageforce, and powerful soul, both qualities belonging to the magis, not warriors. Magis are required to have good affinity with certain nature elements to gather mageforce better and faster as well as a strong soul. Warriors just need a strong body and a qi method. Unfortunately, for saint and beyond the qualities that make a magi are necessary, not so much for warrior qualities. 
  • edited April 2016
    Duniak said:

    1. Well actually Delia gained soul strength through the special stone not gaining insights. Beside I highly doubt gaining insights from a spark and not through yourself really gives you much benefits at all. But you may be right about the part where you gained soul strength for gaining insights, I'll have to check up on that more just to make sure, but it's just more reason why a non saint can't go to deityhood without entering sainthood first. 

    2. While both warriors and magis both ascend through the same method, they are clearly different. Saint magis still chant and it's very obvious. Besides that, as naofumishield pointed out Linley upon entering sainthood as a warrior did not have a transformed soul but he and his wife did upon doing so as a Mage. And that's a rather big difference as well. What I was going with this is that the only thing we have confirmed so far is that the special transformed soul of saints is required to fuse with a spark to become a deity, but if warriors don't get that, then how are they able to ascend is what naofumishield asked, which is a valid point. Warriors and magis have clear distinctions, especially in the beginning, but author just decided to converge the two paths. So perhaps this was one of the things that wasn't meant to be different at all is what I'm saying. 

    3. You happen to be quite wrong in the few areas here. Whether you are a warrior or a Mage does play a huge role while still in sainthood, and though not as much, even in deityhood as well.  I said this earlier, but yeah saint magis chant and that's so obvious. Magis have a stronger soul, which is directly related to training speed. The stronger the soul, the easier it is to tune in with nature and get insights, so naturally magis saints should be better and faster than warriors at the laws. Strenghtening the body and gathering qi has its limits and doing so does not necessarily mean you'll gain soul strength or insights. Getting insights into the laws is harder for warriors because of their natural less affinity for sensing the laws and weaker souls. It doesn't make sense if the likes of Fain reached prime saint as fast as Desri. And Linley's insight with earth laws is directly related to the fact that he has exceptional affinity with earth to gather mageforce, and powerful soul, both qualities belonging to the magis, not warriors. Magis are required to have good affinity with certain nature elements to gather mageforce better and faster as well as a strong soul. Warriors just need a strong body and a qi method. Unfortunately, for saint and beyond the qualities that make a magi are necessary, not so much for warrior qualities. 
    1. Wut wut wut? There was no SPECIAL STONE. There was only "DIVINE SPARK". You highly doubt gaining insights from a spark give much benefits? Wut? WHAT?! So Highgods from sparks are shit compared to people who became Demigods on their own because spark doesn't give benefits, eh?

    Hell freaking no. Spark gives the same benefits normal cultivating does BUT

    a) You can't gain further insights, so your Highgod spark's power is your final powerlevel, no fusing laws etc, as Highgods who die are probably run-of-the-mill Highgods.

    b) Can you put that spark in another body? I know you can put spark in your clone like Oliver, but I don't think you can make a clone with a spark.

    2. They are different until Saint level. Of course they chant their spells like Dimensional Edge, but if they gain insights into that particular Law, they don't need to use it because it's liquid shit compared to Laws. So there's a difference until maybe mid-late stage Saint. Then spells are useless. Have you ever seen anyone on that powerlevel who said anything like "Shoe, I'm a peak Saint Warrior so I'm weaker than Fain". Hell no. Spells ARE Laws. Warrior gains insights through their sword and they hone their bodies. Linley gained insight faster by sword/Throbbing Pulse than he did with his spells. He did upgrade spells with his insights later on. Summing up.

    Warrior- Trained BODY gaining insights through fights, sword, training their body.
    Magi- Trained SOUL, gaining insights through their spells.

    And when they ascend to Deities their BODIES are REFORMED with Divine Power, rendering Warrior's training USELESS. They also get SEVERAL times stronger soul, which makes Magi's training USELESS. Attacks made from Insight into the Laws are stronger than any spell, making both Warrior and Magi stand on even ground.

    3. I mentioned stronger soul, so your explaining how this works is pointless.

    And let me explain. NOT EVERY PERSON WITH EXCEPTIONAL MAGEFORCE AND SOULPOWER TRAINS AS A MAGI. Someone with exceptional affinity might train as a Warrior. As I said, Linley gained insight while training his sword. Of course Magis are more sensitive, but this advantage is significant only pre-Saint/early Saint level. Magis have an edge on early stages because they DO NOT NEED TO HAVE ANY INSIGHTS, because they have their spells.

    I don't remember if Saints also get Soul strengthened during breakthrough, but if they do, that makes Magi training pretty useless.

    Warriors easily catch up to Magis in terms of training. Linley was many, many years faster with his Warrior Training and got (in base form) Saint Warrior long before he became Grand Magus Saint. He gained insights as a Warrior faster. Warriors train faster than Magis, deal with it. Becoming Saints and Deities strengthens the soul so much Magis train harder for a slight edge.

    Strange how you do agree Warriors train faster and say it doesn't make sense, yet ignore that training to Grand Magus level is several times harder and slower. Warrior are hundreds of years longer on Saint level, so they gain insights sooner. In exchange for harder training, Magis have stronger soul, sometimes soul attacks, train faster at Saint level. By the time Magis get to Saint, Warrior might have already gained some insights and a headstart.
  • 1. I had always assume Beirut did something special with the spark. It was mentioned quite a few times that a demigod spark is absolutely useless to non saints. Furthermore, the only thing sparks have is the laws "written" there as well as the universes power. Where and how is she gaining soul power from? It doesn't say that the spark itself holds soul power so how can it be strenghtened Delia? I have yet to confirm if you do get soul power from making breakthroughs in insight but regardless Delia did not gain any insight until sainthood and yet she still was getting stronger. You don't get the soul boost until you fully fuse with the spark and enter the next deityhood. And it's suppose to be impossible for non-saints to interact with spark. So then I concluded that Beirut, with his multiple powers and methods unseen by many, created some special stone for Delia to use the spark. But I suppose it is fully possible that the spark can just give those benefits of extra soul power and affinity since delia's case is one of kind and it was never fully explained. It could be possible I suppose. But this isn't important.
    Allow me to rephrase or rather specify. Fusing with a spark rather than train in your own gives you the minimal benefits. They receive different benefits, you should've double check. The element sea where they get divine power is vastly different. It was mentioned upon Linley's Ascension that his usable area was several times the size of Delia's. The soul strength cap is also different. Even if they have the laws, they can't use it as well. So in conclusion, yes I would actually call highgods who fused shit compared to demigods who train on their own, even if he took a billion years to reach such a level. Their benefits are not the same. 

    2. You seem to be misunderstanding something. Warriors gained insight while training their body, true, but only if they have the required affinity and soul strength, which originally belonged to the magi. And magi do not gained insight simply through spells. Rather both can gain insights through any method. Warriors can gain from spells and magi can from brawling. But the important part is to have the affinity and soul strength which are qualities of the magi. Magi have been training since day one to become saints and deities. Warriors most likely did not. You do not need soul strength for warriors nor is affinity for nature required, but once you attempt to break through sainthood, you are forced to acquire those. You can train qi or the body all you want, if you got no soul strength, you won't ever gain a single insight. Whereas magis most likely will just by doing their regular thing. It's been mentioned multiple times how significant the soul is to gaining insight. Saint warriors like Olivier have the capability to cast spells. All you need is the mageforce and soul strength which as saints, everyone has. And you need to know the chants. But before that he could not. And while Linley did gain insights from spells, he did not use them to strengthen his spells, he didn't need to. But it was due to his magis qualities that he acquire them in the first place. He technically got them through magi training not warrior training. In fact it's impossible to gain insight through warrior training. As warriors do not require souls strength or affinity, both which are required to gain insight. Warrior training is increasing your qi or body strength, ain't got nothing to do with soul or affinity to nature. Whenever warriors, or anybody, gain an insight, it was because they were tuned in with nature and had a strong soul, which is technically magi training. Even if they wer just swinging a sword. And training while a saint and deity are exactly the same. Linley made no difference whatsoever as he trained in both states. What are you talking about? The only way to train is gain insight from literally anything, the only thing that matters is the soul and affinity. There is no difference for warrior and magi training or saint and deity training. There is only preference in how you do it. A warrior would feel more comfortable fighting and magis casting spells but that does not limit them. Oh and luck is a factor as well.
    Spells, legit chanting, ain't useless beyond mid-late saint stage either, Desri, a prime saint only use spells. Deity stage is where the different story comes up. 

    To sum up:
    how do magis train; increase their soul strength and tune in with nature to gather mageforce
    how do you gain insight; have soul strength and tune in with nature
    conclusion; any training where you gained insight is technically the same as training as magis. 

    3. Saints and deities who were originally magis have a HUGE edge, not slight, over warriors in terms of soul. Fain got nothing on Desri in terms of soul. Warriors do become saints faster but once you hit saint and beyond, magis should leave them in the dust. No matter what, in the end the most important quality is your laws. As I explained earlier, to train in the laws is basically what magis do all the time, it never made any sense that warriors can catch up even if they got a little bit of a headstart. Peak warrior saints like Haydson, or whatever the earth guys name was, only have soul strength equal to 8th rank or 9th magi at most. That's not very strong, compared to the soul strength of even the weakest magi saint. How the hell can he gain insight faster than magis. Again, the book states that the main requirements to gain insights into the laws are soul strength, affinity, and luck. Two of those three belong to magi from the get go, and while warriors can possible have better affinity, their soul strength should not compare to magis, in general. Magis should have a greater sensitivity to the laws and that is important all throughout your life. So while someone with the qualities of a magi can chose to train as warrior, it is rather stupid unless you really want to fight close but you can just learn to do that at the saint stage. Honestly, the only way warriors like Fain can train as fast as magi like Desri is through luck.

    All this may sound like I'm contradicting what I said in a previous post a bit but what I meant to specify at that time was the manner in which they fought. 

    Final conclusion, if you weren't a magi, you were destined to not go very far, unless you got some crazy luck. At least that should be the case, but you don't need to worry cause this author likes to mix things up all the time and made warriors just as equal to magis without ever giving a proper explanation. 
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