Everything wrong with CD

24

Comments

  • Some of them, I suppose can be considered magic.

    So, if people use mysteries they are using magic, then how do warriors who aren't not suppose to be able to use magic train.
    Magic users are suppose to be long range(mostly) users. Virtually everybody fights in close combat.
    Are you telling me that Linley's "bewilderment shadows" and "firmament splitter" attacks are not warrior attacks but actual magic? Linley is both so that's possible but what about the likes many others. The ratio of warrior saints to mages are in favor of warriors. This makes it so that we can infer that most deities are as well also considering the fact that everybody fights close quarterly.
    So whenever anyone uses the laws, it is magic?
    I don't like this explanation and even if it were true it defeats the purpose of real magic.
    I don't think this is true however. While a saint Linley and others showed plenty of examples of the differences between magic and warriors using the laws. Linley casted spells such as "dimensional edge" but he slashed out "dimensional decapitator" like a warrior.
    So no, just people are using mysteries does not necessarily mean they are using magic.
    The only thing magic that I truly agree upon are the scryer recordings and magic arrays and possibly the soul skills. But even then, there isn't enough.

    Apparently there was this comment I never read and no on else said anything so I'll do. The paragons weren't scared when Linley unleashed his true power. The perfect fusion of power turns into this inky green thing that is clearly different from the rest; how can no one notice it. It should not be hard to guess that Linley isn't a paragon just because he'll never admit it. Hemmers is known for having only 4 fused and I highly doubt he would disclose that information to the public. People have probably seen his fights, even through scryer recordings, and guessed the amount. Probably did the same to everyone else.
    One of the main functions of a soul mutant is to vastly improve your soul. Linley has no equal in terms of raw soul power but he doesn't have the brains to improve his soul attacks but then again his real opponents have soul protecting overgod artifacts so I guess it would pointless. But the point is that the soul becomes very strong which allows for you to survive soul attacks and entrapment skill easier as well as vastly improve your training speed. Olivier took around 3000 years to reach 7* fiend level. This is an unparalleled genius excluding Linley and his MC cheats.
    Even if you do lose a clone, you just can't fuse powers or laws, the change to the soul is done and can't be reverted. This was mentioned when orloff came to have the final battle. So the soul mutant still has a powerful soul and can focus wholeheartedly to train in fusing and he would be faster than almost everyone. Plus, so long as you still have original body it should still be possible to fuse with a spark and regain abilty to fuse powers and laws.
    This is also why I believe soul mutants are OP and it is shame that more wasn't introduced to show of their powers like 3 way. It should also be possible for someone who has one clone or fused with a spark to mutate as well. If the soul mutant only purpose is to fuse powers and laws it would have called fusion mutant or something, don't forget how OP the soul aspect of it is, it could potentially mean giving the likes of Delia to improve.
    Also, why is there no soul mutant who has fused 3 separate mysteries over 2 laws (like profound mystery of strength, vitality from earth, and then fast from wind or something like that.)
  • I have a question not totally unrelated. Are the endings to stellar transformations and desolate era as disappointing? (No spoilers) Those are 2 stories im enjoying as much as i enjoyed CD and i would hate the same kind of rushed ending..
  • I admit the title could have been a bit misleading but apparently people don't read things without a number attach to them. Should I have edited that?

    How many years did Linley take to become a deity following the apocalypse. About 30-40 years I believe. No building can last that long without maintainence especially when it was already old and starting to rot. Do really think no monster decided to take a peak inside. They don't have to kill people to look inside; I'm not sure why everyone firmly believes that. Some have intelligence so they could just be searching for items or use it as a nest or something which would wreck some of it or at least "redecorate" it. There's no way for it to be in perfect or even a decent condition as shown when Linley returns. I support the recreation but there's no reason to holify it then if it isn't legit.

    Why were Linley and Magnus walking so freely in the first one then. They acted as if nothing in the world could harm them despite being right in the middle of a war. Magnus even annihilated a group of like a few dozen if I remember correctly. People were so awe-inspired by their fight yet not one person ever thought of ganging up them when they have humongous numbers. I'm pretty sure 10000 people all attacking even without sov might is dangerous to a paragon. How is that any diff from 50 using sov might. In fact I would argue it is even more dangerous.

    I wanted to meet a 3 way soul mutant that was the whole point. In my opinion, which is what this discussion is all about(opinions not necessarily mines), it was foreshadowed to happen as much as a destruction Linley. Why? some may ask. If Linley met one before he mutated, it would raise his knowledge of mutants and raise the expections of the audience for the power Linley would have gotten for his 4 way. I felt like they kind of threw it out without building it up.

    I never said that orloff asked for an overgod weapon first, it was suppose to be a question. And where did it state that wodred is the first. It makes a lot more sense for orloff to be the first since him being stronger and high curiosity that would lead to completing the mission and try asking for one.

    Finally, a lot of what I listed is just stuff I wanted to see happen or complaints. I supposed it's not actually wrong of CD. Or maybe it could be. Some things I mentioned could have helped further develop the story and make it more interesting like the 3 soul mutate and more divine beast and Jenne and Alice. Some stuff are just wrong or doesn't make sense like the afterlife, the will addition, the relationships that never are fully devloped or makes sense (now that I think about it, Delia is just some girl who loves Linley with all her heart basically from the moment she met him as a what? 10 year old. Love does not work like this)

    the first planar war that linley participate in was different from the one that is mentioned when his emisaries participate, because this time it was a planar war where one side(celestial realm had already won 9 times), and for each time a realm wins 10 times in a row the overgods will dish out a reward of extra will, which to a sovereign is far to tempting for them to not go all out on the last 10th war if they had already won 9 in a row before that, that is why all the overgods in the planar war which was mentioned right before the rushed ending had so much sovereigns might. the war that linley personaly participated in was not a planar war in which one side had already won 9 times in a row, therefore paragons in that planar war will be considered the ultimate surprime existence since mostly those that participate in normal planar wars if you are a normal soldier most of them will not really have access to something like sovereigns might, it will only be a very few which is considered to be hidden surprime existences(7 star experts) that will have it and even at that it will not be to many of them. 
  • Even paragons don't know what winning the planar wars symbolizes. And do they know everyone is receiving sov might. Again, how is thousands of people all ganging up on a paragon any less threatening then a few dozen with sov might. I imagine it wouldn't really make a difference either way. Two people are fighting and one is clearly stronger than the other. They both use sov might and the stronger one will still win in the end. If 1000 soldiers is incapable of threatening a paragon, then those thousand using sov might should still not threaten the paragon if he uses sov might.
  • edited November 2015
    I'm pretty sure about Resiegm fusing 5 mysteries the author meant his power was similar to a person who fused 5 mysteries. Pretty sure the author used this example to explain why becoming a paragon with high innate talents was so hard.

    About this magic. Let me explain in a very, very, very, very, very simple way.

    Mysteries = magic.

    Now, why?

    Magic = the simple versions to use the laws without divine power and without actual understanding the laws. Why? It was explained Sovereigns did this to learn how to use the laws. So yes, mysteries = laws.

    Magic = long range? Since when. Wind style flying magic is EXTREMELY CLOSE RANGE.You literally have to cast it over yourself. This is an example of close range magic, is it not? How about earth style armor? I recall a magic that does that....and Linley also makes all his clothes out of the mysteries when he reaches deity level so they also function as armor.

    Now about those wonderful warriors who don't use magic...the author basically they basically get screwed and it's much harder for them to learn the laws, since they don't grow up aligning themselves with the laws. This is what the author uses to explain why Linley's speed of learning the laws are so fast compared to the other saints.

    Now about that soul mutate.

    This is how soul mutates work. You have multiple clones who haven't used sparks undergo a soul mutation to become a soul mutate. Afterwards, you can fuse sparks, but not before it. So this Delia becoming a soul mutate is impossible along with the fact that Delia only has 1 wind clone and no other clone.

    Why can't people tell Linley is a soul mutate? When he is 'Paragon-level', Linley only uses Earth type divine power so everyone thinks he is an Earth Paragon.
    Why can he reach paragon level with only 4 laws fused? His body is sovereign artifact level. His base strength is so powerful that when he uses the Earths laws he already is on Paragon level, why would he use fused divine power when it's unnecessary and he is undercover? Just because a soul mutate can use combined divine power doesn't mean that is only power a soul mutate can use.

    As for the planar war crap. Let me explain why paragons don't participate in that last one.

    Remember the corridors required for victory? Remember it's only wide enough for a few hundred people to stand side by side? Yeah. If every single one of those soldiers standing in that corridor use sov might, there is no way to dodge. They literally only need to attack in a single direction to ensure victory because of the limited space to dodge. Where can a paragon dodge if there are hundreds of people attacking? If there was a dozen people attacking, the paragon could literally say "ggnore" and dodge the soldiers before killing them. Dodging a thousand soldiers in a closed space is completely different than dodging a few dozen.

    Xianxiafan, while some of your claims are legitimate, please, please, read more carefully before bashing the story. I understand the story was rushed, but the story being rushed alone doesn't mean you can randomly make claims by denying aspects of the story.

    Edited to answer a few more questions.
  • A soul mutant was never properly explained. All any one ever knows is that it only happens when someone soul is struck and they're on the verge of dying but somehow survive and if they have clones, they mutate. Why do you need clones to mutate a soul is what I'm getting at. Theoretically, anything with a soul should be able to mutate. Whether they fused with a spark and only a single clone. Also, how do you suppose Olivier mutated then. Since he was still a saint when it happened, we can definitely say clones aren't necessary, now the laws might be but there was never any statement that said so. And why can't you mutate if you already fused with a spark, you can still have another clone so judging by facts we know, fusing a spark before mutation does not bend any rules so long as you have another clone.
    I never claimed that you can mutate with a single clone, I'm wondering why you can't. Again what does the laws and power have anything to do with a SOUL mutation. Even without being able to fuse laws and powers, the strengthen soul is a big improvement enough for most people. The idea of this is an interesting concept that should have been added in my opinion. Well, the author should have given a clear explanation on how they work anyways.

    Some people apparently believe that you need max fused laws to attack at the paragon level. Neither Beirut nor Hemmers is a true paragon but in terms of attack they are. Linley can strike at the paragon level, there's no problem with that. But he can't hide the fact that his attacks only have 4 fused mysteries in them and I'm wondering why no one ever caught it. You mentioned that if Linley used the earth laws he would match the paragons with his strong body. Two things. 1. If using earth laws it should be exposed that he only has 4 fused mysteries. 2. His body is only as strong as it is because he is empowering it with fused power. Linley body didn't reach sov level until he got the azure dragon blood from Beirut. In order to make his body as strong as a sov before that, he needs fused power. That should be exposed as well. When you use power, you get a colorful aura of sorts that's been mentioned multiple times. It is impossible to hide that aura when you attack since you need to use power to the max. Linley's fused power is a special color that should very noticeable. Even if there were some explanation for that time, when Linley fought Augusta and then orloff, it was even written that the aura was there. No one suspected a thing?

    If what you say is true, then the vast majority of 7* levels and above must have been mages right? They sure like to swing their fists and swords around a lot for people who once casted magic.
    There is indeed an earth style armor magic. But I'm pretty sure there was also this thing called pulse guard defense or something like that which Linley used when he fought Hayden or whatever his name was as a saint. That armor was made by battle qi using the laws. And Linley's armor when he turned into deity is based off that so it is not magic. Warriors have their own way to use the laws which they continue to do even in godhood. By the way, most deities are probably warriors
    Magic is a form of way to use the laws without divine power. In that case no one ever used magic again except for the possibility of scryer recordings and spell formations. Everyone who uses the laws upon entering deity hood does so with divine power.
    I have finally came to a conclusion about magic. Magic is the laws but the laws aren't magic. (For those who don't understand is like saying eagles are birds but birds aren't necessarily eagles as they can be Falcons and others.) magic is a method devised to use the laws via casting and mageforce(early form of divine power) and sometimes spiritual power. Since everyone now just activates their divine power and unleash their laws they don't need actual words or chants to remember which is required for magic. So then magic basically did die upon deityhood.
    Also, cast magic on yourself means that range is 0. 0 range is not close range because it is no range but let's not get into that argument.

    As for the corridor thing. Did they need to use sov might. Can't they just all attack the paragon regularly and he should have no way to dodge anyways. Again, I don't see how this one and the last are different. They have sov might. So what? Their base stats all improve but if one side was stronger anyways, it made no difference whether they decide to use it or not. Sov might was given not to tip the war in their favor, but in fear that if they didn't give any to their side but the opponents did, then it would create an imbalance. Besides a paragon can use sov might to full potential so I would argue that the paragon would still be safe if everyone unleashed it. He could just hide behind his army. Then everybody attacks and you get more than 70% dead or something and then he would be unstoppable. The army would take most of the attacks as I highly doubt a paragon would just be in the middle of the battlefield if it really was dangerous to him and whatever is left would not kill the paragon.
  • edited November 2015
    it's pretty easy to tell who was once a mage. just look at those who attack long range with soul attacks and those who fight close range with fists and swords. most mages tend to become soul types it seems. at least going by the way the story appeared.

    as for why everyone seems to pass on 'magic' and spells after becoming a deity, the answer is really simple if you think about it. and that answer is divine artifacts. divine artifacts aren't very useful for using spells, they are much better for attacking either physically or through soul.

    as for soul mutates, the only things known for certain are these:
    1. one must study at least 2 different elements/edicts to become a soul mutate. soul mutates are born from fusing the essences of different elements/edicts together, so if you don't study at least 2 different ones, there is nothing to fuse and therefore nothing to mutate. it does not matter if you have clones or not, as long as you have some insights.
    2. to become a mutate one must suffer severe soul damage to begin the process. this can be done either through a soul attack or from rebound from your own soul attacks
    3. the more elements/edicts you study, the more exponentually greater your chances of failure.
  • i'm afraid to butt in but oliver was a saint no? when he fight with the guy who i forget the name and almost died, it is said that he was 3 months out cold because of his soul so the soul mutation is a valid argument.
  • His body was already at sovereign level before he used those blood essences. It was mentioned that the blood didn't really strengthen his body because his body was so strong already.

    1) just because you use 4 laws in an attack doesn't mean you are not a paragon, it merely means in that attack you used, there were only 4 laws
    2) about the warriors/mage when they were saints, I was using the Yulan plane as an example. Just because warriors in the Yulan plane had greater difficultly studying the laws doesn't mean every warrior, even on other material planes or even the higher planes, have that trouble
    3) strong body+sov might+a few bodies = paragon level of attack or higher. a lot of time must be used to study exactly which laws Linley fused and used, especially the amounts of each law differ. Linley hardly used his attacks with laws, he merely used will+body+sov might to match with the other paragons. No one knows how much laws he actually had used/fused.
    4) the only reason the samara formation worked because it had high atk, defense and speed (to retreat). the reasons why the angel formation worked because the angels didn't care if they died or not. A normal paragon has high stats but not exactly high enough to survive the onslaught of attacks. Many of the attacks were basically suicide attacks from the Celestial Realm. For that reason almost no commander level experts appeared, let alone paragons.
    5) the ending was rushed. everyone agrees on this. I don't understand why you want a deeper explanation for that. Plus, after that happened, Linley no longer used that soul mutated sov power.
    6) Hemmers isn't on Paragon level, he is probably infinitely near it, but his attack power isn't on it. Otherwise he wouldn't have run away so quickly from Linley after he learned Linley was a paragon.
  • You don't need magic for a soul attack and you can use magic for a material attack. True most soul attackers probably were mages, it makes sense, but why did the author have to change so much. First it was warrior weapons are shit while mages staff are the things. Now staffs don't even exist(not one for casting spells) and mages have to properly learn how to fight rather than just running and casting spells. The author really killed the concept of true "magic" warriors are warriors and mages are closer to warriors than they are to actual mages in the beginning. This is my complaint over calling this cosmos the "magic"

    I agree with Vexram list of knowledge about soul mutants, but I don't like it. When you first heard the term "soul mutant" and you had not idea what it truly was what did you think. I doubt anyone's first thoughts were "oh it must mean that you have to train in more than one law/edicts and the benefit of it is to fuse powers and laws from those multiple laws you train in" no I think most people though something along the lines of "it must mean the soul is affected in some way. It propably means it strengthen beyond normal and that would make the person strongest in soul attacks/defense and train super fast and may bypass the restrictions of fusing with a spark. You don't need to train in more than one way do you?" There is no reason to call them soul mutants if you need to train in 2 ways and the benefit is to fuse them. It should've been called laws mutant or something that would be more appropriate.

    Hemmers is at paragon level in terms of material attacks. He once drew with a water paragon in attacking. Now a water paragon probably means that material attack wasn't his suite but it probably is still stronger than most other commanders who do specialize in material attacks. So Hemmers attack do match the bare minimum. But his other areas need working and that drags him down in terms of overall power level. His material defense definitely isn't at the paragon level or maybe Linley is just too strong

    When people fight to kill or save their lives would they hold anything back. You're a paragon and another is raging and want to kill you but you only use 4 fused mysteries to attack. Everyone values their lives. Of course if your opponent if clearly lower than you, that's a diff story. But the wind paragon fought Linley before should have a clear idea on his strength. That should have been suspicious when he saw Linley not even close to paragon level just jump to it in less than a few hundred years. Linley fights Augusta and before he use fused power he uses earth laws. Killing people here. He should be using max possible which is only 5 and Augusta should have caught it.

    Linley did use blood essence to strengthen his body. He said so to Augusta when asking for his mother and you probably just misunderstood the first passage when Linley fights Augusta. That one is a bit confusing. It suggested that Linley used the blood essence but it didn't strengthen his body. But the next one says otherwise. Also Linley only had 11 drops when Beirut gave at least 30. When you think about it, would he really waste about 20 drops just to try and strengthen his body after the first didn't work. It did work and it was only after using a lot, more than half at least, until he noticed there was no change. So before that, his body was not at the level of sov artifact. He needed to empower it with fused power in order to do so. So he needs power to attack clementine or he used his laws with his will. Either way he is exposing one or even both.

    Paragons, thanks to the power of will, have "no weaknesses". This and they can properly control sov might to max means that they have high atk, def, and speed. They should not be any weaker than the samsara formation in my opinion. Even more so when they have full set of sov artifacts. Paragons should have at least one. And I'm also confused about why they don't have a full set. These paragons most likely have participated in the planar wars so why haven't they got a full set. Only the truly brave can advance and during war is when they can make breakthroughs fastest. If I were them, I'd get a full set just in case. And then they truly would be invincible and the planar wars wouldn't kill them. Otherwise, paragons are really overestimated.
  • It was stated most paragons only have 1 sov artifact. They have reached the apex of the highgods and sov artifacts don't really do anything unless the other party is also a paragon. Paragons don't really fight each other. They kind of get bored after they reach the top.

    Hemmer's body is the one thing that he is most proud of. It's really strong cause he was born a mountain. His body is near sovereign artifact level like Beirut. So his defense is really good and his material attacks are also really good.

    Enlightenment is basically the reason for anything regarding training. So Linley saying he had a breakthrough from commander level to paragon level after getting nearly killed by a paragon is justified.

    The essence brought his body 1 level higher than it was without it. He beat Celementine with sov might+will+body+dragonform without any laws i think.

    There is a difference from going all out and suicide attacking. The former you care about counterattacks and the recoil of your own attacks, the latter is basically your strongest attack without any regards to the consequence.
  • TLDR, just gonna answer some of your points:
    3) I don't remember him killing some random people, he basically kills only enemies, that's probably logic
    4) Agree, but his original body or clone spend time with family, not all of them just train(except some emergency cases)
    6) Not sure, but at least first 3 of his childrens(actually 2) received dragon blood from saint level dragons, sure its not enough :D
    7) Linley attend academy ...
    8) As I remember they moved to some city in infernal realm and just lives there
    9) How can someone who doesn't train/nor like to train improve?
    11) Why the hell would he even be interested in it? It's literally planar prison, nothing much to do with it 0_o
    13) Obv. because there isn't even one of 3-way SM, Linley wouldn't survived if not for this 'stone' he got from Reisgem
    14) 8 clan heads??? Why the hell would they try to pick a fight, since Sovereign already told them to F. off
    15) For the sake of plot - no. I too was dissapointed because of that.
    17) One sovereign doesn't simply ask for a fight with another sovereign, too much of commotion would happen
    18) Actually there is sense, imagine fusing demigod spark and highgod spark - something like that, or more like imaginge if you right leg would be many times stronger then your left leg
    19) That one particular planar war mentioned that all participants would get sovereign might, that's the reason, besides, paragon is already the top(as they cant train to sovereign level), so they dont have much to do, and obv. doesnt really need a sovereign artifact = not much sense in going to planar war
    24) There is proper R.I.P. - Grandpa truly R.I.P.
    25) Maybe
    26) He accomplished overgod mission ...
    27) They still can train, it's just their speed would become laughable, as they fused with someones else spark - which means they didn't really train it themselves - means they don't really know what they know %(
    29) It was a good arc ...
    30) Red haired lady ... apparently some primal living being like chied sov. of destruction
    31) No way
    32) No sh#t, Sovereigns will is entirely different thing, paragons will is usefull against deities, not sovereigns.
    33) Dunno, sadly
  • It's better to take precautions. I don't think it stated that all paragons have only a single sov artifact just that the ones there do. I find that hard to believe when there are many commanders who have 2. Like I said, paragons are highly likely to have been in the planar wars. The whole point of them, for deities, is to thin out numbers and produce supreme experts. It makes sense that paragons have fought in the wars and maybe even broke through while there. In that case, how can they not have more sov artifacts.
    Training to paragon level is not easy. To guarantee your safety and train at the same time wouldn't it make sense to go to the wars and collect some more sov artifacts. That's what most people are doing and then when they feel safe, train until they break through.

    He attacked clementine without his dragonform. He just showed it off but didn't actually fight with the dragonform. He also mentioned that he retracted his sov might. So since he punched with his fist and still manage to break his face through the sov artifact, we can conclude that he strengthen his fist with will and fused power.

    There's a lot of plot holes to Linley's increase in power that most people just don't get. Theoretically, so long as you get an enlightenment, you can make breakthroughs. But it doesn't exactly work like that. Countless years and countless deities, not one deity ever breaks through that quickly. Every one makes slow progress. And that's why everyone at 7* level and above are almost all millions of years old. Some are a million x that. There isn't a single mention of anyone breaking through that quickly. And if you're going to argue against, then I can use the argument that everybody tells me about the 3 way soul mutant. It was mentioned but never introduced simply to show us the rarity of soul mutants and therefore since the author never mentions anyone break that fast, there never was anyone who could do so. Linley is at the early commander stage, even if he got a insight, he would have to wait several thousands or even millions of years to actually improve as is the norm, and would certainly not break through to the paragon level within the thousand years.
    Also, as an elder of the famous 4DBC, some, even amongst commanders, would recognize him. Someone at the 7* level reach the paragon level in what was the time frame? 2000 years? According to Magnus, becoming a paragon with only 3000 years of training is impossible, or rather a million years is impossible. Not everybody is like the 8 clans who suspect Linley of fusing a lot already.
    You would think that someone as famous as a paragon, and 4DBC member at that, would be thoroughly researched so why is it that no one pointed out this flaw.

    There is no difference between going all out and suicide attack in the face of absolute power. No matter what a 7* fiend level can do, it'll never harm a paragon. Even if there's a lot of them, the paragon will flee at worst. Defeating someone is easier than killing them, because unless you're faster than your opponent, they apparently are always capable of running away. Probably because the vast majority of people lack a proper long distance attack.

    Also, am I the only one who thinks a lot of Linley's relationships are improperly developed and even a bit nonsensical. Linley spent most of childhood training and the only thing he did with his friends were go out to eat here and there. Is it that easy to develop long lasting true friendship where one can sacrifice for another because my friendships took WAY more than that to develop to such stage.
  • edited November 2015
    if you expect to have more elaborate and in depth story of linley bromance and romance you definitely read the wrong genre... almost all xianxia never write much in the romance department... and most of the reader never expect a good romance story from xianxia... what the reader want to know is when the MC is going to kick ass and whose ass he is kicking next...
  • I'm not asking for an elaborate story and details on Linley's relationships. I am well aware that xianxias are very lacking in that department, but a small little story like Linley saved his friends when they were small from bullies, or some life or death situation. A heart-to-heart talk with Delia that explained her undying love for him. That can't take up too much time. Leaving it as is, makes you wonder why Linley isn't friends with everyone he's ever met, because the time he spent with some random travelers can sometimes be more than what he did with his friends.
  • Read Volume 20 chapter 42. Linley starts off in dragonform to get the interspacial ring that Clementine threw. It never said he went back to normal mode when he cased after Clementine. He did use divine power but it also mentioned it like sov might, so i don't think any of that power truly leaked out. He did retract wind sov might for 4-way divine energy to increase his speed and strength. It wasn't like when he got a fourth sov spark where all his sparks fused into one, only the energy turned black, so he was still able to keep it inside his own body.

    I don't know where it mentions most paragons only having 1 sov artifact but it was when he talked about how unusual Magnus was (who had 3 sov artifacts). Paragons don't have anyone stronger than them, the paragons are all on similar levels, some differences emerge depending on whether the specialize in material/soul atk/def.

    Just because you have high stats doesn't mean you are invincible, otherwise there would have been no point of getting sov artifacts. The bodies of most paragons are not that strong, it's just that they have will+complete comprehension of the laws that make the overall stats much higher than others. I don't know why you keep thinking that Paragons are invincible. They are fighting in a limited size corridor where a person can only go forward and back. If the paragon retreats, he isn't doing much other than pointlessly risking his/her life. If he attacks, he isn't really guaranteed a win.
    Plus how do people get a sov artifact from the Planar War? Kill commanders. Only the Infernal side has any commander level experts but none of them have any badges cause the ones that do aren't fighting in this war. The Celestial Realm is using chumps and 12 winged angels, who also don't have badges. What is a paragon going to do? Fight for sov. might? Yeah, right.
    Suicide attacks and normal attacks may not have much difference in power output but they do have a massive difference in mentality. Just try running through a rain of bullets. A normal attack will focus on defense so those bullets don't kill you while the suicide attacks the angels used basically ignored the bullets and used attacks to kill the shooters, even if they died. This is a massive difference. A paragon isn't going to tank hundreds upon thousands of material/soul attacks without dying.
    As for the analogy of just because x doesn't work, 10x doesn't work isn't logical. Increasing the factor of attacks by ten times is a VERY important qualitative difference. That's basically the difference between fusing four laws and fusing five laws.
    All in all, Paragons can be killed and paragons have no reason to be in that planar war, except if they were suicidal.

    Nobody except for a few people truly know how long Linley has actually been training. Although Linley was only an elder for a short time, people may suspect that he trained far longer than that to actually reach that level.  Plus after fusing the laws, you still need to develop attacks with the laws and no every law is a material/soul attack so not every paragon level attack will include all the attacks. They will, however, include will which makes their attacks much stronger.
  • Linley may have retracted his dragonform. Read the part where he actually attacked clementine. It mentioned that he immediately dragonformed afterwards to prove that he had yet to fight at full power.

    It doesn't matter how long Linley has trained for. It is impossible to go from 7* level to paragon in few thousand years. Linley's battle are public and almost anyone can see them and know when they fought since it wasn't too long ago. Whether you're a sov, paragon, commander, or even a normal God, you can do a little research and find that flaw.

    My analogy is correct, just your math isn't. Whatever you do to one side you do the same to the other. If a stronger guy fights a weaker guy(s), the stronger wins. They all use sov might, the stronger still wins. The battle may be more intense and more damaging to the landscape but the stronger still wins. If a paragon can sit right in the middle of this corridor the first time around and be unafraid, then it makes no difference if you give everyone sov might.
    If a paragon can't tank so many attacks, then the first time around should still be dangerous. He's being surrounded by countless deities. Why is he not scared that they all decide to blast him into shreds even without sov might. In my opinion, it should either be paragons can't guarantee their survival in the planar wars period or they can and it makes no difference if you give everybody sov might. The only way to refute my argument is to say that paragons can survive in the planar wars the first time only because they use sov might. Or that the second time around there are a lot more stronger people in it. This way it would create imbalance.

    Hiding your aura is difficult in a battle. You need to blast your opponents with everything you got so putting your power to the max would show. There are plenty of instance when he does do that. One of them should have given away his identity as a soul mutant or at least suspect something is wrong.
  • Linley may have retracted his dragonform. Read the part where he actually attacked clementine. It mentioned that he immediately dragonformed afterwards to prove that he had yet to fight at full power.

    It doesn't matter how long Linley has trained for. It is impossible to go from 7* level to paragon in few thousand years. Linley's battle are public and almost anyone can see them and know when they fought since it wasn't too long ago. Whether you're a sov, paragon, commander, or even a normal God, you can do a little research and find that flaw.

    My analogy is correct, just your math isn't. Whatever you do to one side you do the same to the other. If a stronger guy fights a weaker guy(s), the stronger wins. They all use sov might, the stronger still wins. The battle may be more intense and more damaging to the landscape but the stronger still wins. If a paragon can sit right in the middle of this corridor the first time around and be unafraid, then it makes no difference if you give everyone sov might.
    If a paragon can't tank so many attacks, then the first time around should still be dangerous. He's being surrounded by countless deities. Why is he not scared that they all decide to blast him into shreds even without sov might. In my opinion, it should either be paragons can't guarantee their survival in the planar wars period or they can and it makes no difference if you give everybody sov might. The only way to refute my argument is to say that paragons can survive in the planar wars the first time only because they use sov might. Or that the second time around there are a lot more stronger people in it. This way it would create imbalance.

    Hiding your aura is difficult in a battle. You need to blast your opponents with everything you got so putting your power to the max would show. There are plenty of instance when he does do that. One of them should have given away his identity as a soul mutant or at least suspect something is wrong.

    “Hmph, Clementine, just now, I didn’t use full force.” Linley said coldly. And then, his body suddenly began to sprout inky jade draconic scales. Those inky jade spikes emerged as well. Linley instantly went into full Dragonform, then stared hard at Clementine. “Just now, I was able to heavily wound you through the Sovereign artifact. But now, I am able to kill you! You should understand by now.”

    Dragonform has multiple stages. Linley going into full Dragonform and the fact that he was in dragonform earlier means that he was in dragonfrom when he attacked clementine, just not in a full dragonform.

    He was 7*fiend as a god. Becoming a highgod and a commander level expert in a thousand years is reasonable. Then going from commander level to paragon level is reasonable if getting insight. from 4 fused laws to 5 (from god->highgod) and 5 fused laws to six (after nearly dying). 

    I already explained why the Planar war this time doesn't have enough incentives why Paragon won't fight in the Planar War. As for my math, it was a sufficient example, but since you just want to bash CD so much, I'm going to give one last example before I'm done. Your feeling towards the ending of CD blinds you.
    Last example: just because a few drops of water doesn't cause a bucket full of water to overflow, doesn't mean dumping a few gallons of water into the bucket wouldn't. In this case, the bucket would be a paragon and the bucket overflowing means the paragon dying.

    Just because someone is strong, they can't maintain that state constantly. Normal paragons don't have that strong of a body, thousands upon thousands of attack will add up and kill that paragon if enough hit. I don't know why you think paragons all have all 3 sov artifacts and are invincible under the sun. The story only compare paragons to invincibility because it refers to the general situation of a 1 on 1 or 1 on a few dozen. Everyone in the Planar war was 6-7*fiend level with sov might. Their attacks are pretty strong already and while they might not beat a Paragon 1 on 1, a few thousand with sov might is enough to win.
  • I'm not asking for an elaborate story and details on Linley's relationships. I am well aware that xianxias are very lacking in that department, but a small little story like Linley saved his friends when they were small from bullies, or some life or death situation. A heart-to-heart talk with Delia that explained her undying love for him. That can't take up too much time. Leaving it as is, makes you wonder why Linley isn't friends with everyone he's ever met, because the time he spent with some random travelers can sometimes be more than what he did with his friends.

    i believe that IET already done that... read when they are still in the academy that is enough to see how close they are and how they help each other and don't forget who is it that stay beside him when he lost alice and grandpa doehring died... and about delia read how that she is still waiting for him even when she know that linley love alice... read how delia console him when hogg died and tell him that she will still wait for him... read how delia practically go against her parent and go to linley side... i think that is more than enough to show how strong her love for him... and about the last its quality over quantity his time with his 3 brother is stronger than his time with other people... so even if he spend more time with other people his feeling doesn't really connect with them so even if they are friend he still think highly of his 3 brothers...  
  • The relationships, that was all after a six year time skip. Plus some added time. Those examples are the results of a good relationship, not what led to it. If all they did in that six year period is drink and eat a few times here and there which may be quality time the first time but not constantly, their relationship should not be at the level where they would console him and show their love and support. I know a guy for 9 years. But as we mostly just see each in school or at work, and we have certainly talked but only idle conversations and nothing more. I would just call that man an acquaintance and not someone I love and cherish like brothers. The point is there were never any quality time between us or Linley's, none that were ever shown, that would have led to such a relationship. They just love him and want to help because it's the power of main character bullshit.

    It does not make any sense to reach the paragon level, from the 7 level in that short of time. It is suppose to be impossible. Even if you gain insight, it's a slow process that takes countless years to actually make any improvements, even more so the farther you go. Linley may be faster than everyone, but even he would have taken several tens of thousands of even hundreds to reach the actual paragon level, which is still way better than anyone else. He in fact admitted it once, that that would be an appropriate time for him to possibly reach such a level.
    If you breakthrough almost immediately every time you gain a snipet of insight, everyone would be paragon level already. It is not that easy, so don't make it sound reasonable.

    That last example is still wrong. You forgot to make the bucket larger. I mention it a dozen times but everybody also bypasses it. Allow me to use your example. You have a bucket, paragon, filled with some water, others. The bucket can fit the water meaning the paragon wins. Then you shower the bucket like a rainfall, use sov might. Bucket is overflowed, paragons dies. Oh wait, paragons can use sov might too, and they use it better. Bucket increases in size to match the rainfall. Bucket doesn't overflow, paragons wins.
  • edited November 2015
    well you ask for little story... whether you satisfied with it or not is not xianxia main purpose... the main thing is IET already include those stories... 


  • I asked for a story that would properly explain their love and friendship towards Linley. Again, the only one that has that story is Bebe. He helped Bebe as a baby gaining the greatest trust a beast could give anyone. Bebe is with Linley the longest amongst anyone, even including Delia, as Bebe goes along with Linley's adventures that Delia didn't and even at least was there while Linley was training. They have been through life and death situations and have their souls connected. Their strong bond together is very well explained. There is no backstory to what led to all that for the others. Everyone else met him as kid, and then barely see him anymore because he spend like 99% of his spare time training. The most they mentioned is that Linley attends some classes and goes out eating with his friends. That's not enough in my opinion. So no, IET did not include stories that properly explain Linley's friendship with his 3 friends nor Delia's obsessive love for him. They gave nothing like an intimate moment between them that shows love sparks flying or anything. The part where Delia goes to console Linley and then kiss him does not count. I'm wondering why Delia wanted Linley in the first place, what led to that love of hers. Delia just loves him because the plot called for a wife.
  • I just talked to a friend about the whole planar war argument thing and he finally gave a satisfactory answer. He told me that reason why paragons were able to survive in the planar wars the first time and act like it was like walking through the garden is because sov might was already taken into consideration. He told me that Linley and Magnus fought using sov might and that was what terrorized the others. Then, he said that if all the others soldiers gain sov might, they would all increase in power but the paragon can't gain any stronger to handle it because he already used sov might. I was under the assumption that the paragon could not be threatened by the other soldiers without sov might himself, so therefore they would use sov might if everyone else uses sov might as well. Which would go into the situation I kept describing, which still is true. That situation just doesn't apply here. I couldn't find anything to refute what he said, so I took it.
    For all those that argued against me on this matter, could this have been what you meant. Because the way many argued or the logic and reasoning they used wasn't clear like what my friend told me. The arguments I've heard could all be refuted by what I said using the scenario of a stronger guy beats weaker guy. They both use sov might so the stronger still wins. But if the stronger guy was stronger only because he already used sov might, then the weaker would win or have a chance when he uses sov might. Now that makes sense and doesn't contradict what we know.
  • I just talked to a friend about the whole planar war argument thing and he finally gave a satisfactory answer. He told me that reason why paragons were able to survive in the planar wars the first time and act like it was like walking through the garden is because sov might was already taken into consideration. He told me that Linley and Magnus fought using sov might and that was what terrorized the others. Then, he said that if all the others soldiers gain sov might, they would all increase in power but the paragon can't gain any stronger to handle it because he already used sov might. I was under the assumption that the paragon could not be threatened by the other soldiers without sov might himself, so therefore they would use sov might if everyone else uses sov might as well. Which would go into the situation I kept describing, which still is true. That situation just doesn't apply here. I couldn't find anything to refute what he said, so I took it.
    For all those that argued against me on this matter, could this have been what you meant. Because the way many argued or the logic and reasoning they used wasn't clear like what my friend told me. The arguments I've heard could all be refuted by what I said using the scenario of a stronger guy beats weaker guy. They both use sov might so the stronger still wins. But if the stronger guy was stronger only because he already used sov might, then the weaker would win or have a chance when he uses sov might. Now that makes sense and doesn't contradict what we know.

    Sov might. This was your reason why Paragons wouldn't be killed. Because they weren't using sov might before and now everyone else was using this. While I'm glad you finally understand why Paragons aren't participating in this war....I'm appalled by how this was your main argument. Wow.

    Let me list the differences between the normal planar war and the Celestial planar war:

    1) there are almost no commanders or emissaries in the Celestial planar war
    2) all the cannon fodder now have sov might in the Celestial planar war
    3) there are 12 winged angels who are suicidal attackers in the Celestial planar war

    Now why wouldn't a paragon want to join this planar war:

    1) all the cannon fodder are 6*-7* fiends who have sov might
    2) there are almost no commander badges to fight for sov artifacts
    3) they can only win a single drop of sov might after killing 10k of these chump blocks who are using sov might

    Now while I appreciate the fact that your friend has done a good deed in explaining why the paragons can die in the planar war, I call ******* on the reasoning he gave. I gave you the same reason with the stupid bucket analogy but that apparently went right over your head. What kind of paragon doesn't have sov might?
    But let me tear apart your friend's argument like how you did mine. Just because some 7*fiend chump block uses sov might, their base stats are simply too low and they don't have Will. Therefore the paragon could easily escape to the attacks. Paragons can use the sov might much more efficiently and better, so the strength they get out of it is a lot more than the cannon fodder's. Therefore, even when the cannon fodder are using sov might, they still won't be able to kill the paragon.


    ^ that's the logic you gave me. WTF. Somehow, in some way, you forgot Paragons use sov might. All emissaries have sov might, large clans have sov might, paragons (the epitome of emissary candidates) definitely have sov might. In fact, mind you, Linley used it, Magnus used it, Clementine used it, all the other 7 paragons used it. Their Soveriegns give them sov might by the thousands. And you dare bring up the fact that sov might made up the stupid difference since the paragons don't normally use it. Holy ****. 

    A paragon is stronger than a normal soldier without sov might and, with sov might, the paragon is still stronger. What are you smoking with your logic? Holy ****. Did you even think before you made those comments?
    Now, in case you bring up the argument that Paragons don't normally use it, let's use another one of your arguments. It's a deathmatch, they will go all out, at all times. That means, when a Paragon has sov might, he will use said sov might, because that's part of their strength. That means a paragon will always have sov might at hand if he/she has it. You somehow forget this MINOR DETAIL.

    So let's go back to the analogy with the bucket. If the bucket is the paragon and the paragon already has sov might, they bucket isn't going to get any bigger and it will overflow. **** it. I'm so done.
  • So why is it only now that you mention it when I used this argument over a million times already. Look back at all my comments and I always mention it yet no one pointed it out and attempted to refute it. Silence means agreement. If you don't attack my statement, I'm assuming you agree with it just like how if I don't attack yours, that means I agree with it. That's like having an entire argument where one person based his argument on one fact that no other bother to refute, so he assumed it was true. Then you come along at the end to finally refute a statement that was made at the very beginning and even insult me. Is that how you do all your arguments. I should be insulting you for not reading my comments or arguments or you just don't care what other people think because you think your right all the time. But I won't stoop to such a level.
    Using curse words and insults lowers ones intelligence since there are many others words you can using instead. Insults are the first and last argument of a lazy, bad debater.
    The bucket thing, you didn't mention that the paragon used sov might so how was I suppose to know. I'm not a mind reader. In a debate, people say things in a clear understandable way and don't expect other people to know their implications. At least, that's what a good one would do.

    And your arguments are still wrong. In a life or death situation, people fight with their full power. That's true. But a paragon hardly ever enters such situation and therefore using their full power isn't necessary.
    According to Linley and Magnus, the planar wars is like walking through their gardens or something. Do you need to utilize every single one of your muscles and be on the max alert and hold a gun while walking through a garden. Unless you're some paranoid guy, you wouldn't. Same thing here. That's how they describe it, so assuming that they don't use their full power, including sov might, is a very reasonable conclusion. I'm surprise no one else thought of this. I guess I'm only one who lives in a neighborhood who allows people to walk through a garden without any worries whatsoever. If any of you don't live in such a situation, that's very pitiable.

    Way to copy and paste my statement that you didn't bother to refute. I agree with the paragon can still beat some other dude who uses sov might, I should since i said it, but I believe it was you and some others who constantly kept telling me that the paragon would be surrounded by multiple people who would all blast him to shreds. My previous argument was if he could do so before, why can't he now, under the assumption that he didn't use sov might the first time. You didn't refute it, so I thought you agreed with it. My friend told me he couldn't do it the first time without sov might, so then he is already at max power while the opponents can still get stronger. This makes sense, you don't
    Let me put in an easy way to understand. Paragon uses sov might to be able to kill 100 7* level(example don't bash on whether this is true) Those hundred all use sov might and now they have the advantage. That's what my friend told me. I thought the paragon could beat those hundred without sov might, and therefore still be able to do it the second time cause he can use his as well. This is the scenario that describes the planar wars. Not a one on one battle like you describe that I did not give you. I said a stronger guy not a paragon. And I mentioned guy(s) which means there could be more people on one side of the battle. So no, I didn't give you that logic, you pulled it out from who knows where.

    Finally, this is an argument on whether a paragon can be threatened by the planar wars, not whether he decides to participate or not. We are assuming one is fighting for whatever reason it doesn't matter as that wouldn't change whether his life is threatened or not would it? So don't try to change the subject just because you can't or won't refute my arguments.

    Also, my argument was closer to the truths then yours. I argued that sov might should have made no difference but I didn't know that a paragon needed sov might to walk through the planar wars like walking a through a garden. You thought planar wars would destroy the paragon if everybody use sov might. According to a sov named Boson, when talked to Linley about the emissaries, even in such a situation paragons have a 50% chance of death. I'm other words, a paragon participating in the celestial planar wars still had a 1 in 2 chance of walking out alive. That's a pretty big chance compared to a commander who going to die +90% of time. So paragons are truly nearly invincible as they have such a high percentage of survival in that chaotic war and I simply mistaken the sov might issue.
  • chommpi, just to fix a error you made

    it's 100 soldier badges for a drop of sov's might and 10k badges for a sov item.

    still thats way to many badges regardless of if it's a 10 win planar war or a regular one. too much risk for too little reward.

  • People will probably be gone now. Not sure if there's going to be anyone reading this. I'd like to thank everyone for their time. The story is over and I'm sure most are sad, especially me since there were so much that could have been done to improve the story, just check out my list. I still have some unanswered questions but I'm sure that these questions can't be answered by anyone other than the author. But anyways, this was quite enjoyable for the most part. It was only a bit sad when some curses and stuff like that came in. You know a person doesn't have any arguments left when he starts insulting others. I brought up valid points (besides the add-ins that would make it longer/interesting) that I felt needed to get straightened out. After much debate, some were answered(planar wars), others were not(why everyone in the story is such an idiot that they can't notice a single flaw in Linley's sudden rise in power), some just made it more confusing(Sparks made by fusions)
    All in all, thank everyone again for their time and we'll meet in other threads unless some still want to talk then I'll check this for a little while longer.
  • That wasn't really an argument, but more of a rant, for most of the things I said weren't explained too well. But since you feel so insulted by my previous words, let me present them in another format, now that I know where you have erred in the understanding of my response.

    1) Just because I explained why Paragons wouldn't want to go there in the first place does not detract from the conversation, thing of it an add on that really couldn't be put anywhere else.
    2) Just because I swear (which really where just asterisks o.o), doesn't mean you should take it as an insult but note it as a place where our thoughts don't coincide. You don't go up to a person and say 'Holy ****' and expect that person to be insulted. Insults don't work that way. The person may be confused as to what just happened, but probably not insulted, unless swearing peeves them.
    3) The reason I didn't understand which part of the sov might you were arguing about in the first place was because you were right in the wrong places and wrong in the right places. This is not to say I'm entirely right nor you are entirely wrong, but rather our thoughts weren't being conveyed properly.

    You were bringing up sov might constantly, so I simply assumed you knew sov might was being used by paragons in both types of Planar Wars. Because of this, it never dawned on me that you never included sov might as a paragon's strength in the non-10 win Planar War. In this argument, I suppose we both looking at two different buckets and collecting the right data, but with two completely buckets, so the results differed.

    4) Like I said before, I thought Paragons using Sov might was a given. Almost supreme experts used it, from Paragons to large clans to children of sovereigns to emissaries.
    5) You mentioned in a death match, Paragons wouldn't use sov might against a random 7*fiend because they didn't need to. However, there is a proverb (maybe chinese, maybe not) that basically means lions go all out, even when hunting a rabbit (best example of this would be a cheetah chasing after deer or that animal that looks like a deer).
    6) Paragons can store sov might within their bodies for as long as they don't use it all up. So they will always have sov might in their bodies unless they never got it in the first place or used it before they became a paragon. So even in they are walking in a garden, the sov might is still in their system.
    7) The way you portrayed your argument was that Paragons were invincible under the sun and they should join the Celestial planar war to get easy sov artifacts and paragons could have been very useful for the Infernal Realm to defeat the Celestial side. I was trying to give reasons why they would avoid the Celestial Planar War rather than a normal one (because of the angels, everyone having sov might, few commander badges) but they weren't going through, so I used the bucket example (to show that a paragon had a limited capability), which didn't work either.

    It wasn't until you actually pointed out what your understanding of the situation was until I understood yours. People have some facts they take as givens and apparently for this story our givens were different. Plus, my ranting earlier did indeed help, I'm much calmer now. I wasn't against your friend so much that I was against your understanding of Paragons and sov might, which I still don't fully understand. The normal Planar War had Paragons strong not just because sov might, but because the first part of the war is more small groups or single people fighting against another individual or small group. The Celestial Planar War could be considered a mayhem where people just bum-rushed until one side fully collapsed. Sov might wasn't that much of a factor in the first one, though people still used it. While the normal Planar War also had that mayhem during the last part of the Planar War, it wouldn't be to such a devastating extent as the Celestial Planar War. For example, take where Linley and Magnus started to duke it out with sov might, everyone else basically stopped. If this were to have happened in the Celestial Planar War, people would have kept going and Linley and Magnus may have been hit or targeted by external attacks (like the 12 winged angels who didn't care about life or death or the various 7*fiends who would want the reputation and also had hundreds of others backing them up with sov might). In conclusion, my argument was basically Paragons didn't participate in the war because the death rate was far too high for its worth and Paragons aren't so invincible they can shrug off any attack. Paragons can die if they are hit enough times from attacks that are decently strong and powered by sov might.
  • I may have overreacted myself. I'm the type don't really like insulting others nor being insulted myself. Swearing just gives me an uncomfortable feeling, excluding the really frequently used ones where they don't have the same connotations as they used to; people should understand.

    Yes, I suppose what was is given as an obvious fact or assumptions in our heads are different here and there. I did mention sov might a lot but yes my thoughts were on the notion that paragons won't use it unless necessary like the last planar wars. Also, paragons are very prideful people. Even if they can keep sov might within their bodies, I don't think they would use without actually needing it. Their pride won't allow them to attack someone weaker, especially using sov might, unless they were insulted. Or else they would be ridiculed or scorned. Again, it was said that Linley and Magnus are just walking through a garden which led to my assumption that they don't need sov might to handle the war which apparently they do. Our buckets were different. I suppose it is also logical that there were more people in the second one so it would be more wild and chaotic, not to mention the Angels.

    But you also mistaken, or maybe I didn't clearly explained, the part about artifacts. I'm not thinking that paragons should go in to get some more sov artifacts. I'm wondering why they don't have a full set to begin with. They should have gotten them from previous wars. And I don't think there is a rule about not being able to participate if you have a full set, so with the paragons might paired with a full set of sov artifacts should make them invincible even in the final planar wars in my opinion. Yet not one paragon has a full set which should not have been difficult to obtain.

    And also, paragons aren't completely doomed in that kind of situation. A sov said that even if a paragon was surrounded by huge amounts of people wielding sov might, the paragon still has 50% chance of surviving. Whether or not the sov took Angels into consideration, I'm not sure. But he was referring to the upcoming war and he should know that Orloff would ask Augusta for the Angels so maybe he did. Point is that while paragon may not be invincible, to be able to have such a huge chance of surviving that situation is proof of there peak power. Perhaps if one did have a full set of sov artifacts, that paragon would invincible not to fear even the planar wars if he was right in the center.
  • Instead of talking about "everything wrong about CD", why don't we explain everything we liked about CD?
Sign In or Register to comment.